Realities of Being an Event Planner

[00:00:00] Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to my first business, the podcast. I’m your host name Pervez, and I’m a relatively new and sometimes clueless business owner, and I wanted to talk to other entrepreneurs to help guide me and inspire me and help me understand the best way to grow my own business. So [00:00:15] I know you may be in that boat, you might wanna learn about what mistakes to avoid, how to overcome common challenges, how to identify new opportunities, and that’s why I created this show for you, my dear listener.

[00:00:26] So if you are thinking of going out on your own, or if you’re running a new [00:00:30] business or an old one, I don’t care. I’m not an aist. I bring on guests from all sorts of industries and they’re full of wisdom that you’ll chew right up. And each episode is going to be like a conversation with a mentor that you never.

[00:00:44] My [00:00:45] guest today is Hannah Matthews. Hannah School report once said she’s a hard working in class, but likes to daydream . Fast forward to now, she’s working on getting some dreams up to come. True dreams such as owning and running couture events, which is a luxury [00:01:00] event management company, and they’ve got a bit of a reputation for organizing some high profile weddings, corporate events, and memorable social.

[00:01:07] Occasions across the MENA region, they’ve worked with hundreds of high profile brands. BMW New Look, Adidas T Fest, [00:01:15] parkette, four Seasons, Waldorf Astoria. Wow. Hannah has been in the event sector for over 10 years now. Previously owning an events agency in Portugal before deciding to take her planning international.

[00:01:27] Her love for the industry started when she worked as a wedding cake [00:01:30] designer and the turning point came when she delivered a customer’s wedding cake and found the organizer, um, needing some help . So being the natural planner and firefighter, she stepped in to help and never looked back. When she moved to Dubai, couture events was all [00:01:45] year round and Hannah immediately recognized the potential to grow and develop the brand worldwide.

[00:01:49] So like a good daydreamer does. , she took over the business and is busy making it a powerhouse of a company and I want to learn how to do. . Hannah, [00:02:00] welcome. Thank you so much that thanks so much for coming on. Um, we’re gonna get into the business stuff in a bit. Okay. There’s something I wanted to get outta the way first.

[00:02:07] Okay. Uh, a little birdy ones told me, so I wanna make sure it’s true. Uhoh, uh, getting your heart rate off right at the start. . [00:02:15] So, is it true I have to read this out cuz this se this sequence of words in a sentence I’ve never said before, . So, is it true that you were once rescued by two fire engines, and three [00:02:30] police cars when your car was sliding backwards?

[00:02:33] Mm-hmm. down a mountain in the snow? It’s true. It’s true. I know what I know. And you know what the worst part of it was is I was about [00:02:45] 17 or 18. So I just passed my driving test and my mum was having this really fancy dinner party at her house and I called her and I was crying, hysterica. Cause I thought I was about to die and I didn’t know what to do.

[00:02:58] And I’m like, [00:03:00] help me. And she’s like, everyone at the dinner party just got in the car. The food stayed in the oven. Like they came back. It was black. Like it was so bad. Yeah. I mean, what was that called? Like what did you, how did you find the word to tell your mom what was going on? [00:03:15] Well, I didn’t, I was like, oh, you know, like I couldn’t speak, you know?

[00:03:19] Were you alone in the car? Um, yeah, I think was, I, I was going to my friend’s house and do you know what? I blacked out so much at that point. I think that I was, I was [00:03:30] nearly at her house. She lived, like, I lived in the countryside. Right. And, um, no, I just picked her up. I just picked her up because we were driving up the hill and it was really snowy, like there was so much snow.

[00:03:41] And I’m in my little perio 1 0 6, you know, like [00:03:45] we, and, uh, and I’m, and we’re in the car and we go up the hill and then all of a sudden we get to a certain point and we hit ice. And I start coming back. But then on the, it’s literally a mountain. And then there’s, there’s no barriers cuz like, you know, you’re in the countryside, right?[00:04:00]

[00:04:00] And the, and I don’t know how to steer a car in because they say you’re meant to like, go into this, into the, wherever you’re sliding, right? So, but then you don’t wanna do that because your brain’s like, don’t do that because you’re gonna go off . So then my friend, luckily there was this [00:04:15] massive sand bucket that I never, you know, you pass them in the countryside all the time, right?

[00:04:20] And you never really think, you think, why is there sound in there? And she was just, and she was younger than me. She was, I think she was about 15. And um, and she ran up and she just [00:04:30] grabbing the salt and putting it in a, in a jumper and running it and putting it on my wheels to like melt the ice, the ice underneath the wheels.

[00:04:37] So by the time, so the ambulance, right, there’s like firefighters there, the police are there. And this one guy just [00:04:45] casually I’ll never, I died. He casually got in the car and just slid my car down the, down the mountain. Just chilled With one hand. With one hand. I swear it sounds like it. I was the, I was like, [00:05:00] Oh my goodness, this is so embarrassing.

[00:05:02] You know? But I mean, at the time I thought I was gonna die, so, and they were really quick. I’ve gotta say, so you lost the story. I can’t believe you’ve opened with that, you know, have to start with the most traumatic event of your life. Don’t I? [00:05:15] Horrific. But you know, there, there’s a reason I chose that because Yeah.

[00:05:17] There’s firefighter firefighters involved. Mm-hmm. and, um, getting into the business stuff, I wanna talk to you about firefighting. Okay. Um, so here’s the deal. I just came back from a wedding in Bali and, uh, in my culture, weddings are [00:05:30] already a big, big, big, big deal. On top of that, it was an interfaith marriage, so double the events of everything.

[00:05:36] Mm-hmm. in a different country with a bunch of different people. So, uh, and I’ve been to over 50 weddings in my life, and as a nosy and very, [00:05:45] um, observant guest. Mm. I can’t stop thinking about all the things that can go wrong. Everything in an event like that go on. And planning and visioning is, is all great, but in the moment when something happens, I wanna draw some parallels to firefighting in events.

[00:05:59] Mm-hmm. [00:06:00] as you have to be in the moment where, and see what I can use in my own business or, or people that are listening as well. What is it about, what have you learned about putting out fires when they arise? I’m not talking about the ones that you can kind of pre prepare for. There are some that are [00:06:15] predictable.

[00:06:15] Yeah. There are some that you had. These ones are never, yeah, yeah, yeah. So what have you, what have you learned? How do you recognize them early enough? What’s your usual plan of action? If you could either generalize or tell me a story of, you know, what’s, what’s your firefighting uh, [00:06:30] strategy? You know, the funny thing is, is in events, I’ve never in 10 years ever had an event where there hasn’t been something that I’ve had to put out ever.

[00:06:39] So I think that thinking on your feet and thinking fast and finding the solution without [00:06:45] causing any disturbance is the most important thing because ultimately I’m hired to make sure the day goes smoothly and there’s always something. So I had a wedding last night, right? This is, and this is just yesterday.

[00:06:55] It was a couple of hours ago, and the ceremony happened. It was a British [00:07:00] couple and I work with couples from all over the world, so different cultures all the time. But this particular wedding was a British couple and everything was really great. They’re a great couple. They’re really easy. And I was driving to a wedding and I was going, I dunno what’s gonna go wrong today, [00:07:15] because they’re great.

[00:07:16] The wedding’s planned. We set up the night before, super easy. We, we were lucky, we had a bit of extra time. What could possibly go wrong? So we go to the ceremony. The ceremony starts, the bride’s a bit late, but that’s normal. and then [00:07:30] the celebrates there. And, and I noticed that she starts sweating quite a lot, but we’re outside and it’s really hot.

[00:07:35] Right. And I’ve been out there since 8:00 AM The team’s been out there. We’ve been setting up, but this point it’s 4:00 PM So, you know, the sun’s coming down. She’s a bit hot, but she’s nice. The [00:07:45] celebrant, you know, she’s, she’s chilled . Anyway, ceremony was beautiful. It was, the words were amazing. I’ve gotta set the scene cuz it was, everything was perfect, right?

[00:07:53] And I’m sat there and I’m like, this is gonna be the easiest event of my life. And then, um, anyway, I go down then, cuz the [00:08:00] dining area was separate to the, to the ceremony area. And I go down and the celebrant came down to see the decor cuz it was two separate locations. Wow. This is beautiful. Like, I love it.

[00:08:09] We’d never worked together before. Her and I, and she sat on the steps and she’s like, oh, I’m really hot. [00:08:15] I’m just a bit hot. I’m just gonna calm down, like, chill out here. So I’m there with my team and we’re just fixing a couple of little things before the guests come down and I look and I’m like, she’s, she’s falling asleep on the step.

[00:08:27] No, no, no, no. She passed [00:08:30] out, she hit her head on the step and passed out and there’s no one in the area at the time because all the staff for the hotel are up with the guests. Right. There’s a few people. So I’m like, holy, like what do [00:08:45] I do? Like what? You know? So literally like, I’m like, grab a fad to me.

[00:08:48] My team are like fanning her. I’m calling like security, like, get me, get me somebody to come and help. Like I need first aid immediately because there’s not much you can do. And then she threw up. [00:09:00] So like I’m with one of my team who’s like actually really smart when it comes to like first aid, right? Yeah.

[00:09:06] And she’s like, I think she’s having a heart attack cuz she’s been sick. And I’m like, are you joking? You know, I mean luckily I’m laughing. It [00:09:15] wasn’t that she just overheated. Yeah. Thank, thankfully. Yeah. Um, but yeah, so in answer to your question, after telling sort of a bit of a story. , it is just about thinking fast and getting a solution, getting the right people involved as well.[00:09:30]

[00:09:30] And I mean, that one’s a bit traumatic. I’ve had other ones which were just, you know, ridiculous. Like one time , this was years ago, and all of the first course got dropped on the floor as it came out the oven. I mean, you know, there’s just , there’s always [00:09:45] something. And you don’t wanna alert the, the families or the bride and groom because ultimately they’re there enjoying themselves.

[00:09:51] So your job is to make sure that you take on the stress, you take on the solution, you take on, you know, so, yeah. So there’s, there’s two parts of it. You have to [00:10:00] fix what’s wrong mm-hmm. . And you have to manage the, the people that are, or or whose event it is for sure. Do you, uh, which one do you do first? Do you inform them of something going wrong and then you’re working on it and you have a.

[00:10:13] Or do you kind of figure it out as you [00:10:15] go? I have to first of all do the planned solution to go with them with a solution because ultimately they don’t wanna make the decision on the day they’re enjoying themselves. They’ve maybe had a drink if it’s a certain culture. Mm-hmm. , you know, at that point you have to go with them.

[00:10:27] So, for example, with the food one, which was [00:10:30] long, long time ago, um, it was in Portugal and there was five courses. Mm-hmm. . So I switched a course, I made the decision and I switched it without asking them. Yeah. And I went to them mosque cause they’re on the head table. Right. So there’s always people looking at them, you know, so I went, so should going next to them.

[00:10:43] Yeah, yeah, exactly [00:10:45] right. Somethings up. Um, so I just went and I was like, look, this has happened. I’m switching the courses. The fish is gonna come first, this is gonna come afterwards. They were like, okay, cool. Done. If I’d gone to them and been like, right. Big issue, all the meats on the floor, they would’ve been like, I think [00:11:00] it was the fish actually, and we swapped the fish in the meat.

[00:11:01] But anyway, um, they would’ve freaked out. You almost have to hold back the information or the exact hundred percent information, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because it kind of muddies their mind with, especially if they’re not in good control of your emotions. Mm-hmm. . So they’re [00:11:15] relying on you to have good control.

[00:11:16] Mm-hmm. , do you end up having to, um, I wouldn’t say argue, but present your case and then, uh, kind of not allow them, but allow their solutions to rise above yours even though you think you might be the level headed one. [00:11:30] Is that an easy conversation or do you kind of just take charge and I’ve got this, I’m doing this, this is what’s gonna happen?

[00:11:35] It’s a good question, and to be honest, I think. by the time the event day comes, they’ve spent so much time with me mm-hmm. , and they trust the decisions that I [00:11:45] make. So ultimately, if I go to ’em with a solution, they just trust that that solution is the right one for them. Yeah. Um, so I would always, I’ve never had someone disagree with me and be like, do think that’s the right decision ever?

[00:11:55] Yeah. And I mean, and we’re talking like, I’ve done hundreds of events over the space of 10 [00:12:00] years and there is always, always, always, always something that goes wrong. Yeah. So the, all those times it’s going with a solution. Obviously I’ve got better at it. Yeah. You know, like learning and developing is something that we constantly do and like every event there’s, it’s always [00:12:15] something new that those hundreds of times it’s always been something different.

[00:12:18] Yeah. So you, you know, you, you grow and you, you learn to, I think. W problem solve much better than why didn’t the beginning? Yeah. I think, I think something you mentioned in there is actually key, like you built that [00:12:30] trust with them mm-hmm. beforehand so that even if you tell them beforehand, look, shit’s gonna go south at some point, but I’ll be here.

[00:12:37] Yeah. Um, and we, we’ve tried to use this in our business as well, so when we do, let’s say advertising campaigns that start flopping or something terrible [00:12:45] happens on the internet, that’s not good for the brand. Mm-hmm. , um, how we react and keep the clients’ emotions in place, knowing that we don’t even have a plan solution yet.

[00:12:55] Like you talked about having a plan solution yet the initial part of like. shit’s [00:13:00] gone south. Trust me though. Yeah. I’m on it. Mm-hmm. . And, and that’s what we’re trying to embody. So Alina looks after most of the account management. She’s a client facing person, so she’s got that trust built in. But over time, we are trying to transition her away from that, working in the [00:13:15] business to working on the business, which means getting other people to talk to clients.

[00:13:19] Mm-hmm. and that skill of developing that trust, being like, don’t worry, I’m here. I’ll figure something out. Leave this with me. Mm-hmm. and that phrase, actually leave it with me, is my favorite phrase to [00:13:30] hear. Mm-hmm. from a service provider of mine. Yep. When someone says, like, I was buying a property recently and some, uh, my, my broker ran into some issues, all he said, all he said, leave it with me.

[00:13:42] That sounds so good. To my [00:13:45] ears. Mm-hmm. is to be able to say that. Um, good. Okay. Um, I think, I think that that build trust thing is really important cuz that can happen over so many interactions, right? Mm-hmm. , and that’s something that Lena and I will discuss. How, how can we do that earlier as well. Now I [00:14:00] wanna talk about vision, develop, development and, and planning.

[00:14:05] Again, trying to draw parallels between business planning, event planning, life planning, all that kind of stuff. Mm-hmm. kind of has a similar theme going around it. So when a client [00:14:15] comes to you with an idea for an event mm-hmm. , let’s skip the weddings, maybe some, something else. Mm-hmm. , do you have a, a process, like a fixed process of going through that visioning of, of taking what they’ve told you, understanding it, clarifying what they meant, and then [00:14:30] communicating it back to them.

[00:14:31] Like, is this what I’m hearing? Is this what you want to do? How, how does that process look like? If you have one? If you can lay out the different steps that you have. of, um, yeah. Turning, turning a vision into something that you understand client’s vision to, something that [00:14:45] you understand. Mm-hmm. , it’s a good question.

[00:14:48] Um, with any client, it, it, whether it’s corporate, social, winning, doesn’t matter. For me, it always starts with what I call, and I learned this years ago, it’s the, it’s the most important sales tool that I’ve ever, ever been taught, [00:15:00] which is, it’s called, they call it the need find, right? So you’re finding somebody the need, find the need, find, so you find someone’s need, right?

[00:15:06] So yes, somebody’s putting on an event, and yes, they’ve got an idea of what it wants to look like, but why are they doing that event? Why? What is the, what’s the [00:15:15] purpose? What do they wanna achieve with a wedding, for example? What is the most important thing for them? How do they wanna feel on the day? How do they want their guests to feel on the day?

[00:15:23] If it’s a corporate, why are they doing that event? Are they doing it to reward staff? Are they doing, what’s the purpose? Because [00:15:30] when people walk into that room, no matter what event it is, we have to answer that. That has, that need, has to be, it has to be created. Right. So sometimes when, especially, do you know in weddings, [00:15:45] corporates mainly weddings actually.

[00:15:46] But if, if an event is being created, they, they haven’t thought of those questions. They just say, oh, we’re getting married. We want it to look nice. Okay, but what’s the, and and everybody has a different a. Thing that they wanna do, right? So some people will say, I want people to [00:16:00] walk in. And I want ’em to be like, oh my goodness.

[00:16:03] Like, what is this? There’s other people that are like, actually, I don’t want people to walk in and see that we’ve spent loads of money, but I want it to look really nice and we just want, you know, we’ve been a, we’re really suffered [00:16:15] with covid. We just want everybody to enjoy themselves. So how does that look?

[00:16:18] That doesn’t necessarily translate into design, it translates into entertainment, right? Because, so it’s about covering the entire process. So when, when a client comes, we do what I would call the need find, I’d find out what it [00:16:30] is that they’re actually looking to achieve, what is it that they want people to feel when they walk in, and then we develop that into what that looks like on paper.

[00:16:38] So paper is then created. Like we create the kind of like a mood board, which includes all elements from [00:16:45] what a venue would look like. Where from the entrance through to the, the ceremony or to a cocktail, if it’s maybe a corporate through to a dinner. How does that look like? We obviously start looking at venues for them that fit if they haven’t found one already, if, if it fits [00:17:00] what they’re looking to achieve.

[00:17:01] Because if they want that breathtaking moment, Dubai has venues like that where they, I don’t have to do anything at that point. And they walk in and the venue’s like, you know, um, and then it’s all translated onto paper. And then we basically take that back to them and I present to [00:17:15] them. So I show them, right, this is what I’ve heard, this is how I’ve translated it onto paper.

[00:17:20] What’s your feedback? Tell me. And then general, I’d like to think I nearly always hit the nail on the head. I would like to think that. Um, but yeah, there’s [00:17:30] always feedback, you know? Yeah, we love that. Maybe we could develop this a bit more. And then they then get fully involved in the process. Um, and then from that, then pretty much they, they feel it, I’ve understood them.

[00:17:42] Um, and it builds a little bit more [00:17:45] trust, like we talked about earlier. And then hopefully at that point just go into the close, get the deal, and then start working on it, which is just yeah. Kind of the process. It’s so, cuz it’s so intangible when they come to you with words like, I want it. Wow. And yeah, like, what is, wow.

[00:17:59] What is, [00:18:00] wow. Yeah. Tell me what wow looks like to you. Yeah. Because to one person Wow. It’s completely something completely different to another one. Yeah. And then you have the really, you know, the tough chat about budgets. Yeah. Because, you know, not everybody has a budget to create a certain Wow. So it’s, yeah.[00:18:15]

[00:18:15] Yeah. I remember when we were developing tech products, we used to have clients come in with, you know, app ideas. And, uh, just to get them to define what they want was a five day exercise. We’d bring them in for six hours a [00:18:30] day for five days straight, just to understand what they’re trying to do. Wow.

[00:18:34] Because their initial brief to us, if they’re talking to us was like, oh, I wanted to have a button here, and it should do that, and it should link to that database. And there needs to be a chat bot. I, that’s very [00:18:45] clear. Come back tomorrow, bring your team six hours. We’re we’re getting to the bottom of this.

[00:18:50] Um, and yeah, we, the, the whole why question. We do, we used to do this thing called the five Ys. Okay. So if the client says they want [00:19:00] xyz, and we’d put that as posted up on the wall, and then I’d ask, why do you want that? And they’d say, we want that because of xyz. Because abc, why do you want abc? Yeah. Oh, I want that because of D, F.

[00:19:11] Why D? Yeah. Yeah. And you do five and you, you, [00:19:15] you figure out that they actually don’t want that XYZ that they want in the first place. That’s a useless goal to set . Um, but I’m wondering, do you, do you do the same thing for your business as well? So when you’re planning, envisioning for your business, does any of [00:19:30] this carries carry over?

[00:19:31] And I’m asking cuz it’s a struggle for us. We’re really great at marketing for our clients, poor and marketing ourselves. , if you ask me to run Arlina and I to run our own campaigns, we’d like, mm. You know, we’re not at the same level or we [00:19:45] don’t use the same processes that we use for our clients. Mm-hmm.

[00:19:47] But when you sit and you’re visioning, you know, either on a mood board or just lying down in bed or with a glass of wine, are you, how are you visioning for your business? Are there things that you’re pouring over from your, [00:20:00] uh, client experience or how, how do you go about it? You know, for sure I have a vision, but just like you, , I think that you doesn’t look like this basically.

[00:20:12] Um, look, I think that you, um, [00:20:15] my, I’m very seasonal, right? So, It. My events in the UAE generally start from um, October, September, actually September, and they end around May. So in the summer I’m, I’m exhausted and that’s the time all year. I’m like, in [00:20:30] the summer I’m gonna do this and I’m gonna work on myself and I’m gonna work on the business.

[00:20:33] And then it gets the summer and I’m like, I need to sleep. You know? Um, so I would definitely not as good at planning the business [00:20:45] as I am at planning people’s events. That is 100% for sure, if I’m being honest. Yeah. It’s definitely something that I need to do, but I’m getting to the point where, I think there’s this like, is it like the 80 20 rule or the 40, the 60 40 rule, right?

[00:20:59] 80 20. Yeah. Right. [00:21:00] It’s 80 20. And, um, I read this book once, I dunno if you, have you read the book? Um, the Success Principles by Jack Canfield? No, I haven’t. Everybody you have to read it Changed My Life. Okay. You, you have to read it. Say, say the title again. Uh, the Success Principles. Success Principles. Jack [00:21:15] Canfield.

[00:21:15] Yeah. Kenfield. Okay. And it changed my life and I, there was one, every chapter teaches you something new, right? And this was about this 80 20 rule. And it was, I read it and I was like, this makes so much sense cuz there’s things that I don’t enjoy doing, right? I don’t [00:21:30] enjoy organizing my personal life at all cuz I spend my whole life organizing everybody else’s lives.

[00:21:35] So it’s like, find someone that can organize your life and they love to do that. So that’s, they’re doing what they. and they’re doing something that you don’t love. So they’re happy, you are happy, everybody’s happy. And I’m like, [00:21:45] that is the most simple principle I’ve ever heard. It makes so much sense. So much sense.

[00:21:52] Um, and I started to, to really do that. Like, I hate washing and ironing, so like coming to Dubai, cause I read this book when I was living in [00:22:00] Portugal. Yeah. And, um, and I came to Dubai and I was like, oh, it’s actually normal that you can have like a, you know, a nanny or a maid and That’s amazing. And now she’s part of my family and I couldn’t live my life without her.

[00:22:10] You know, she organizes my life. So, um, yeah. I I, I’m [00:22:15] definitely guilty of it. I’d like to think I’m improving. Yeah. But it’s self improving all the time. Right. And that’s, I’m definitely have to do. Well, as long as you keep doing for your clients , it’ll all work out. Yeah, exactly. We’re, we’re actually planning, so [00:22:30] tomorrow 8:00 AM to 10, uh, 10:00 AM I was telling you before, uh, we started rolling that we do our weekly board meetings every Wednesday.

[00:22:36] Love that. So I’ve set this one off kind of meeting, eight to 10. Cuz Alina and I haven’t done our visioning in a long, long time. It’s been, it’s been a year and a half at least. [00:22:45] And we’re kind of lacking this North star, so we don’t know what we’re building towards or it’s, it’s fuzzy. Mm-hmm. . It’s, we kind of know it and if you ask me, I can talk about it for three hours, but is it focusing every energy, um, uh, molecule [00:23:00] in my body towards it right now?

[00:23:01] No. And same for her. We’ve been in kind of turbulent waters, uh, this summer has just been like that for a lot of businesses. Right. Kind of a rebirth, three generation kind of phase. Mm-hmm. . Uh, so we’re gonna try something out tomorrow. I’m. Put some PostIts up on a wall. [00:23:15] Yep. And ask why five times? Yeah. It works.

[00:23:18] Maybe even create a wood board that just gives me an idea. That’s something that we can do to warm. Um, okay. Um, you mentioned Portugal in there as well, so I wanted to ask you, was that your first ever [00:23:30] business? Did you partake in business as a, as a young one? Uh, back home as well in the countryside or so?

[00:23:36] You know, so when I was in the uk I was a, a field sales rep. Mm-hmm. . And I hope no one hears this. In fact, I told my manager when I left, so [00:23:45] years ago, so I went, I went to university. I absolutely hated it. Mm-hmm. , I’ll give you a long story. Very brief. I absolutely hated it. I did a year in business management and I was like, I hate it.

[00:23:56] I really, I just, I, I, in school I was always. The, [00:24:00] the, the number one pupil in university. I was one of 300. And it didn’t matter. Like I was a nobody. Right? And I hated that, which sounds ridiculous. So I was like, well, I can’t, I’m not top of the class. I can’t stay. And that’s genuinely why I laugh. , I quit. I [00:24:15] quit because I just, I’m just an massive pool of people.

[00:24:17] Yes. It’s either me or these 255 people, right? , right. It was so ridiculous. And my dad sat me down one day and he was like, Hannah, you can’t, you can’t quit. You know, you can’t be a quitter. And I was like, yeah, but I’m just not loving it. I want just, [00:24:30] what’s the point in me learning about business in a room full of people?

[00:24:33] Why can’t I just go in and throw myself into the deep end? And he’s like, okay, what do you wanna do? I was like, no, no idea. . So then I was like, I just wanna travel and find myself, cuz at 18, who really knows himself at [00:24:45] 18, right? So when my mom was like, well, we’re not giving you any money. And I’m like, okay, fine.

[00:24:49] I’ll become an air hostess and I’ll just travel and get paid for it. And they were like, all right. So I, I joined Virgin Atlantic, so I did it for a year. And then at 19 I was like, right, I know what I wanna do. I’ve worked out, I’m really [00:25:00] good with people cuz you’re on the plane. Right. But I’m really good at sales.

[00:25:02] I just, I love it. I love convince people to buy whatever. So, um, anyway, I came, I came out of Virgin Atlantic . I might have told a few porky pies on my cv. [00:25:15] quite, quite a lot of occupies. Anyway, so I landed this amazing field sales role, right. So I was 19, I was, I was, I had this company car, it was company mobile.

[00:25:26] All my friends were still in uni. And um, [00:25:30] and in like two years I became top of the company. There was like, I I, I’m sure I remember the number, it was like 576 or something like that. Cause I wasn’t the top. Yeah. And, um, and I became like the, the top seller in the whole of the, the. And I [00:25:45] absolutely loved it.

[00:25:45] I loved selling, but I hated, um, I, I hated advertising cause that’s what I was selling. Um, but I loved the selling part. I’ve completely sidelined. I have no idea what your question was. Your first ever [00:26:00] business? Oh yeah. Okay, perfect. Um, yeah. So then, um, so then I met, um, I met a guy and um, we got married and um, and then he was a, he was a professional rugby player.

[00:26:14] And so at [00:26:15] this point now I’m, I’m smashing life, right? I’m earning so much money at 1920. I have no idea what to do with it because it was a commission, it was a really well paid role, but then it was a really well paid commission role. So I was nearly, well, I was doubling my salary and I was only 21. Um, [00:26:30] anyway, so I met, I met this guy and he, he was like, oh, I’ve got this opportunity to go move to Spain.

[00:26:34] And I’m like, , oh, I’m gonna have to leave my whole life. Like, what am I gonna do? Mm-hmm. . And, um, anyway, the, the deal fell through and I was [00:26:45] devastated. Cause I didn’t know at this point if I wanted to go. And I was so devastated. And I was like, actually, I, I wanna go. It made me realize that I wanted to go.

[00:26:53] So then him and I sat down one night and we literally emailed every single rubber club in the Hall of Europe. [00:27:00] Every single one. I made him do a video. I was like, do this, do this, do this. Anyway, we got like, he got a couple of offers and at the time we actually went to, um, Italy first. So Italy was his first offer.

[00:27:12] And we went there for a year. And that’s where I started [00:27:15] doing wedding, doing cakes. Right. It was more birthday cakes because I was like, how am I gonna make any money? You know? Yeah, I’m, I’m a hustler. No one spoke English. So then I’m like, that year I had, I was like, have to think outside the box now to make money because I’m, you know, I’m not gonna be able to do this [00:27:30] job, the job that I’ve just done and had a huge amount of success with and do it in this country.

[00:27:33] Mm-hmm. then his second offer came to Portugal and I was like, Portugal for rugby. Like, why? But they, they, they paid for us to go over there and it was such a family orientated place. We just got married, we wanted to have children. And uh, I was [00:27:45] like, I love it. Like this is the place I wanna be, but their English was also really good.

[00:27:50] So anyway, started up the cakes again and very, very early on. I must have been within one, two months of being there. Um, I met this wedding planner and she was the one that commissioned the cake that [00:28:00] changed my life. Um, and uh, yeah, so that’s how I got to Portugal and then created this, this wedding cake company, which was, I mean, it was alright.

[00:28:11] I mean, the cakes were amazing. Um, but I still had no direction at [00:28:15] all. Had no idea what I, I was just trying to hustle and try and make my own money, you know, and trying to make something. Were you more of a baker than just a business owner? Probably, yeah, a hundred percent. Yeah. I had no idea how to really promote it, whether, I mean, I emailed all of the wedding planners, which is how I got in contact with [00:28:30] her, and kind of did like the, the thing that I was doing when I was in my, my sales role where Just outreach.

[00:28:34] Yeah, yeah. Just reaching out to people. That’s how I, you know, that’s how, how I was hustling in that job. Yeah. Um, and then I turned up to the, the wedding day, and it was torrential rain. [00:28:45] This, I mean, this poor girl, she was king, married in this like family house, which was incredible. And they had this huge garden outside, but the house was actually quite small and they had like, I think it was about 150 guests, so they had no plan B.

[00:28:56] And when I say torrential rain, it’s like that movie [00:29:00] where the girl goes out and she gets kissed by the guy in the rain, like it was that torrential. And I was like, what They, and. Literally I went into this mode that I never knew I had, which was like mm-hmm. , let’s solve this problem. Firefighting. Yeah, exactly.

[00:29:13] Straight back to [00:29:15] firefighting. And yeah, long story short, you know, I literally, the cake just waited and I was there like given solution and I realized that I had a lot of natural empathy. Um, I managed to calm everyone down cause they were all crying, like the nan’s crying, the [00:29:30] mom’s crying, the bride’s crying, like everyone’s crying.

[00:29:32] Then the groom’s trying to calm them down. He’s making it worse. So, um, yeah, I realized that I had a lot of skills that I never knew I had on that day. And then I went back and I was like, I’ve just realized what I wanna do for the rest of my life. And that’s how I [00:29:45] came into the industry, which happened in Portugal.

[00:29:46] That’s so interesting. So that sales background that you have, I think that’s such. A common trend that I’m seeing. So, or maybe I’m just looking at a mirror. I had a sales background too. Mm-hmm. , straight outta university. I did manage to finish . Well done. Didn’t, [00:30:00] didn’t quit. Uh, but the first job that I ever get, and nobody wants a sales job, is just the fastest thing to get when you are True.

[00:30:08] Because my visa was about to expire and I was in Canada on a visa, and I was like, okay, I need any job. Mm-hmm. . Oh, I got 40 cold calls a day. [00:30:15] Yeah, I’ll, I’ll do it, I’ll do it. I’m an introvert. Sure, that’s fine. 40 cold calls a day. Yeah. I’ve been dreaming about this forever. And I was the youngest hire that they ever had.

[00:30:23] Yeah. And, um, yeah. And six months into it, I was really surprising myself. Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. . It’s [00:30:30] like, it’s just about a process. Just keep reaching out and asking people if they would do business with you. And that’s it. That’s the formula. There’s nothing else. There’s nothing else. You can read 10,000 books about it, but it’s about the activity more than, more than anything else.

[00:30:42] And that kind of attitude [00:30:45] also plays into when you’re starting to launch your own business, because you understand downsides more than. Maybe other careers, uh, teach you, because the good side of it is you can make ton of commission double your salary. Yeah. Very young. And the flip side of it is you’re out of a [00:31:00] job very quickly.

[00:31:02] True. You don’t hit your numbers. Like sales is ruthless. I think it’s ruthless. So you’ve got the numbers up on the wall, everyone’s watching. It’s a leader bowl. Go and ring the bell when you make a sale. Don’t ring the bell. Everyone’s like, they haven’t ring the bell for a while. . Yeah. You’re, you’re not at the [00:31:15] bottom for a few years.

[00:31:15] You’re at the bottom for six months and then you’re out and then you’re out. You know, there’s, there’s no, so you have to kind of manage your day to day with that constant anxiety and stress. Mm-hmm. , but be hopeful and motivated to do the work. And that’s what I think a lot of business is, right? Like mm-hmm.[00:31:30]

[00:31:30] in business. When you’re in business now, and tell me if this is true, it’s either all or nothing. Mm-hmm. . Right. Interesting. There’s no coasting. Mm-hmm. , there’s no ability to coast like that. Part of our body is gone. Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm the one that lets you coast cuz you are either going for it all or you’re just worrying about how everything [00:31:45] is gonna go away.

[00:31:46] Yeah. Very, very soon. Yeah. Um, I wanted to ask you. Two things based on that. One was the first time in your wedding planning businesses, uh, once you started those that you felt like you were onto [00:32:00] something good. One was at the inception where you figured out, okay, you know, are these tears or is this the rain?

[00:32:06] I can’t tell. Oh, wait, you’re all crying. Um, but was there another client along the way? Was there another thing that happened after that when you’re like, you know what, [00:32:15] I didn’t know this. I thought I knew I was gonna be a wedding planner for a long time, but I know I’m onto something. Good. When did that happen for you?

[00:32:22] Oh, you know, this is such a sad story actually, but, um, so I was in Portugal. Um, I was six months pregnant. [00:32:30] And, um, years ago I used to work in a, um, in a, in a restaurant and I was a waitress. I I started working when I was 14. I was always gonna be a, I was a hustler from, from day dot and, um, I was a waitress.

[00:32:44] I was a bit [00:32:45] older though. I was probably about 16, 17. And I worked in this really cute pub in the uk and there was a husband and wife that were just so gorgeous looking and she went behind the bar and he was the singer on the Saturday night. And they were such good people. They had this daughter, she was so cute, [00:33:00] like, so beautiful.

[00:33:01] And, um, anyway, she got pregnant. She, she gave birth to her son. There was complications during the birth and he came out disabled. So they had, they’d had a really tough life, but they never, you’d never know it. When you look, look at them, they were [00:33:15] always smiling. Was everything. Anyway, I wouldn’t say we were close, but we, you know, we spent a lot of time together cause we worked together anyway, like fast forward, I.

[00:33:23] You know, move to Portugal, don’t speak to them anymore. You know, like it’s just, but we were connected on social media, which is kind of the beauty of [00:33:30] social media. Mm-hmm. . And then, so this is years later, like years and years later. I think I was pregnant when I was 20, 26, 27. Right. So, and I was 70, this is 10 years later.

[00:33:39] And he, I always followed them because they did a lot of, um, fundraising for their son. Cause [00:33:45] he’s, you know, he was very disabled. Mm-hmm. and. And he posted saying that he’d been diagnosed with a brain tumor, which I’d known like he, he posted about it a little bit, but there was this one day where he posted it and said, I’ve got a brain tumor and, and it’s, it’s very serious and [00:34:00] I’ve got three months to live.

[00:34:02] And I was like, he was a couple of years older than me, right? And I’m like, oh my goodness me. Like that could be anyone, that could be my sister who’s a bit older than me. It could be my mom, it could be my dad. And it just hit me. And probably I was a [00:34:15] bit emotional cause I was six months pregnant as well.

[00:34:17] And I went to bed that night and I was like, I do something that could give them this amazing day that they could live with for the rest of their life. So I reached out to her and we hadn’t spoken for a long time, so I [00:34:30] was like, do I do it? Do I not do it? Am I a psychopath? Like, you know, so I messaged her and I was like, look, I’ve seen the news.

[00:34:36] I don’t even know what to say to you. But look, I’m a wedding planner. If you ever wanted to do like a vari or you wanted to do something, I wanna do that for you. I [00:34:45] would love to do that for you. And I never thought she would message me back. So, and I hadn’t really thought about what I’d sent. Right. I was just like, you know, I just wanted to help.

[00:34:54] So the next day she’s like, look, I know she messaged me back straightaway. And she was like, he’s, he’s actually really sick. He’s [00:35:00] posting, but he’s really sick. Let me speak to him tonight and I’ll come back to you tomorrow. I was like, okay, amazing. And I didn’t re I did, I thought they would say no bearing and mind, I’m in port, I’m six months pregnant.

[00:35:11] Yeah. Anyway, the next day she was like, green light, we’re gonna do it. What’s the [00:35:15] plan? I’m like, I have no idea what the plan is. Right. . So literally I’m like, what do I do now? You know? Cause I’ve never planned a wedding in the uk. I’ve only ever done them in Portugal at this point. Right? Yeah. So I’m like, what do I do?

[00:35:27] So at the time, Facebook was more, was, was [00:35:30] bigger than, than Instagram. So I made a post on my company’s, um, my company’s Facebook page. And do you know what? What happened over the next 24 hours was insane. So literally I made this post, which basically [00:35:45] she had a picture of them as a family, obviously, saying what the news was.

[00:35:48] We’ve decided to help them do, um, a, a very renewal, I’m looking for any vendors that are willing to contribute or get involved. It got shared probably I had like about 700, like [00:36:00] followers. I don’t even what they’re called on Facebook anymore. I like it was such a tiny account. Likers. Yeah, exactly. It got shared about 1500 times.

[00:36:08] Mm-hmm. , I’d set up a GoFundMe page, which you can do in the uk and I, I thought that I would need about, I think it was about 20,000 pounds to [00:36:15] like, um, to, to pay for the wedding. Right. So I thought I got everybody on Facebook to try and the idea was to get them to put, like, to donate. But then I was getting messages like, oh, I’ll give a cake for free.

[00:36:26] Oh, I’ll do this, I’ll do that. And literally, in 24 hours, [00:36:30] the whole wedding was planned for free. The only thing that I paid for was the cost price of the venue and food, which was like a big cost to them and drink, and everything else was for free. And it was planned in 24 hours. So 12 days later, I’d fly, I fly back to the [00:36:45] UK and we go and deliver this most, I mean, honestly, I could sit here and just cry about that day.

[00:36:51] Mm-hmm. , it was the most magical moment of my life. The, probably the saddest, one of the saddest days of theirs, but yet most magical. [00:37:00] Um, and I just, I, I have this memory and I sat there and I told myself, Hannah, remember this moment for the rest of your life? Because that room was full of so much love and so much gratitude and so [00:37:15] much.

[00:37:15] That I can’t even describe it. Like we flew in this, this band that had played at their wedding years and years before from Ireland. Like they came, they, they paid for their flights. They just wanted to be there. Like everybody had to high security because ITV wanted to feature it. And [00:37:30] obviously he is, I mean, as, as beautiful as a story, as it was obviously a tragedy, right?

[00:37:34] So they wanted privacy. So I had higher security so that paparazzi couldn’t get in. It turned into something much bigger than anybody thought was gonna be. And um, it was just the most magical night of my life. And [00:37:45] there’s no wedding. Everyone asks me what my favorite wedding was, and it will always be that one because sadly three months later he did pass away.

[00:37:52] And every single year that they celebrate his birthday or his anniversary of, of his passing the photos that they use, of the photos of that [00:38:00] day. And I, and I, I look at them and I’m like, wow, look what we did. You know? And it wasn’t just me, it was everyone else that was involved, but that was the day that I’m like, this is my destiny.

[00:38:13] Wow. Yeah. [00:38:15] I’m actually speechless, . I, I’m actually not even gonna respond to the story cuz I’m gonna ruin the magic . Yeah. There I, no, I have no response other than Wow. Yeah. It was, it was honestly, and, and even [00:38:30] now, like I live that, and this was years ago and I, I could never, I could never place any amount of, of experience on that.

[00:38:38] I could never go back to that moment ever. But it has made me wanna set up a foundation and eventually I would love to do that [00:38:45] because mm-hmm. , the reward of giving back is, is, is just so magical. The what you can receive from that as an owner of a business or as a, just as a person is just, there’s, there’s no, you can’t put price on it.

[00:38:59] [00:39:00] Absolutely. Again, just, wow. . Um, I do wanna explore the flip side though. Mm-hmm. , because, um, a lot of people that have been on the show, um, Have also, uh, been through this. So we talked about knowing when you’re onto something good and something you wanna do for the rest of [00:39:15] your life. Um, Alina and I especially, and some of the guests that have been here, we sometimes get into such a despair that we just wanna burn everything to the ground.

[00:39:22] Everything that we built, just like walking away from it. , let’s just get, I want anything to do with you. Nice to know you was fun while it [00:39:30] lasted. I’m moving on. Um, and I can’t have another day of this. Do you ever get there ? I don’t even need to think about it. It’s so funny. So we just recently did a, um, a fam trip.

[00:39:41] So it’s a fam familiarization trip in Abu Dhabi. So it’s all the [00:39:45] best wedding plan is from sort of all over the Middle East. We’re invited in the hotels, whatever. And um, we went there and it’s so funny, we all sat on the couch and we’re. Why do we do this? You know, like, why do we do this job? It’s cuz one person’s got [00:40:00] a bride in this messaging and one person’s trying to do juggle, like, you know, lots of things.

[00:40:03] And we just all sat there and we’re like, why do we do this? But then we sit there and we’re like, but then we do it because of this, this, and this. And, but I think everybody, I don’t even think it’s our industry as such, you know, I think it’s anything, you know, you can [00:40:15] just sometimes just burn out. Yeah.

[00:40:16] And you, and you have to take time for yourself and you have to keep yourself little bit sane. Yeah. Cause it’s so easy as a business owner to get sucked in and then, you know, you’ve achieved one thing, but then you’ve already set yourself a goal to achieve the next thing. And yeah. You don’t give your ti yourself [00:40:30] time to just appreciate where you are, what you’ve achieved and where you’ve reached.

[00:40:34] Yeah. And um, a hundred percent I’ve got to the point where I’m like, I take a sit back now and I’m like, Wow. You know, look, look at this. You know, and yeah, there are [00:40:45] definitely times though that I do wanna run away and be like, I’m never doing this account. But how do, how do you get out of that funk? Is it just an automatic passing of that phase that comes through?

[00:40:52] Like, I wanna walk away from this? Or is there something you deliberately do to kind of bring yourself back into, come on, get [00:41:00] up, you gotta get to work? Do you know what, I, I don’t, I don’t think there’s one particular thing I do. I think that, that my days are so different, right? I mean, this is the, the joyful thing about what I do and the people that I work with.

[00:41:11] So I don’t just work weddings, I don’t just work corporates and then I don’t just [00:41:15] work with British people or Indian people or Arabs. Like, I work with all different cultures. So every day is completely different. So the, so for me, I always find that there’s always something in the day that will pull me out of it anyway.

[00:41:27] Yeah. As long as I get up and I work, something [00:41:30] happens that is just, you know, I, I work in a really special industry. It is. Yeah. Um, so yeah, I think it’s easy to. to get to get out of it as well. Yeah. I think what I’ve noticed, and tell me if this is true, if you spend too much time thinking versus doing, you can get into those funs a lot [00:41:45] more and then you won’t be able to get out.

[00:41:46] You can’t think your way out of a funk. You get out. Mm-hmm. , do your way out of funk. I totally agree. Yeah. Right. Yeah, definitely. You mentioned something in there as well, um, about hitting a goal and then already planning for the next one. Mm-hmm. , do you take moments to [00:42:00] celebrate any sort of milestones for yourself or, or are you like the rest of me and Alina, where we , oh, we did this big thing.

[00:42:10] Great. What’s next? like completely, you know, we, we don’t know how to, [00:42:15] you know, go out for a nice dinner or treat ourselves to a vacation only. We should do that. We only do that when we get to a burnout stage. We don’t do that when we’re like high. And we’ve had a recent win. Mm-hmm. , we use that energy to give ourselves a new target [00:42:30] of something that we need to achieve in the next six months.

[00:42:32] Mm-hmm. . Uh, but we’re trying to get better. Like how, how do you do that for yourself? Do you celebrate occasionally? Do you make it a big deal about accomplishing something? Like if you pulled off a nice event or if you had a nice quarter, [00:42:45] for example? Is there, um, habits that you have in place that you kind of intuitively do over the years?

[00:42:51] You know, I think that, um, I learned a really valuable lesson about two years ago. So as I mentioned before I was in Portugal cause I was [00:43:00] married. Mm-hmm. . Um, I would definitely say that. , I made a lot of mistakes and I didn’t celebrate my victories enough and I get put myself into burnout stage probably too soon.

[00:43:11] And it was to the detriment of my marriage, unfortunately. [00:43:15] Um, and I learn a very valuable lesson and I think that moving forward, and fortunately you have to go through really sad times and really challenging times to come through and actually see yourself in a very different way. And for [00:43:30] me, I really, really learned that I actually celebrating the victories, even if they’re small, is super, super important.

[00:43:37] And I actually find that that minimizes the burnout stages as well. Because actually you celebrate something that’s been very [00:43:45] stressful. You get to a point, you’re like, wow, look what we did. That was amazing. You celebrate it so that you actually feel like you’ve given yourself a good pat on the back, which.

[00:43:54] prevents this, right? I need to keep going. I need to keep, does that make sense? Like it’s, I [00:44:00] can’t articulate it very well, but for me, I, I really learned a valuable lesson. What’s the last celebration you do? I’m looking for example, so I’m just gonna copy yours. , you’re gonna copy mine. What did you do last?

[00:44:11] What? I feel like this is a lot of pressure now. Um, [00:44:15] you know, for me, it, it doesn’t have to be something massive for me, it’s more, you know, going out with my partner or going out with my girlfriend or, you know, just having, you know, a could be a massage. [00:44:30] Oh, I do frequent massages now. Frequent. I have, like, I, I buy them in bulk.

[00:44:34] Yeah. Yeah, same. Same. I buy five at a time, 10 hours. But, you know, I never did that years ago. I never ever did that. I never had, someone would just come and relax me and, you know, it’s, Not an expensive thing to [00:44:45] really enjoy. Yeah. Compared to what you can like, feel afterwards. And a hundred percent is an investment in your business.

[00:44:50] It is an investment. I do believe that. Yeah. But no, I did, um, for my birthday last year, which is coming up now, I, I did let myself have a little bit of a party, which was only in my garden, but I hired a [00:45:00] singer. Yeah. And, uh, that was just, it was so nice. Got all my really, really important people in and that was so nice.

[00:45:06] Ooh, that sounds like something I would like to do. It was so good. Like lounge music in the garden. Yeah. And you know, my neighbors even sat on their balcony and they just watched the garden. Yeah. Cuz [00:45:15] they just, it was such a nice atmosphere. That’s a good one. Yeah, it was good. That’s, that’s a very good one.

[00:45:20] So I’m here copying all your ideas. . I wanted to ask you, who do you call at 2:00 AM the most for business advice? I mean, do [00:45:30] we need business at advice at 2:00 AM Um, I would say that if I, if I have to make an emergency call at 2:00 AM it, it, and I have, in the past it was, it was mother related. Mm-hmm. . So like, you know, your baby’s crying and you’re like, [00:45:45] I do not know what to do.

[00:45:47] I think that’s more likely the call that I would’ve made, which was always to my mum. Yeah. Um, but just in general, like, what’s your network of mentors? Who are you kind of looking up to and borrowing wisdom from? Like [00:46:00] I am from you? What does that kind of circle look like for you and what do you take from it?

[00:46:06] You know what, I have to say that since I moved to Dubai, I, my circle is so inspirational. It’s, [00:46:15] it’s, it’s quite unbelievable. I, I sometimes, I, I’m really shocked about how many people I’m surrounded by that are just. Boxes. They’re killing it. It’s amazing. And I think that the lovely thing about Dubai, and I always say this cuz [00:46:30] people, there’s, people have two versions of Dubai.

[00:46:32] They have two opinions, right? And I’m like, the reason why I love being here is because everybody wants to be here. If they don’t wanna be here, they’re not here. Mm-hmm. , right? Because you have to be here and you have to hustle. It doesn’t matter what you do. Right. And [00:46:45] I really, really feel like because of that, when somebody then has a business, and I, I am friends with a lot of business owners, but I’m also friends with a lot of people who work for companies.

[00:46:55] And even so they’re still killing it. Like I’ve got an md, uh, really one of my really good friends, [00:47:00] MD of a company, they’ve just lo um, opened up a new office. She’s absolutely smashing life. Mm-hmm. . But then yet I’ve got like two other friends that are complete entrepreneurs. I’ve got another best friend who I’m in business with and we’re about to have, which is completely unrelated Toure events.

[00:47:14] [00:47:15] And that’s about to take off for something else. So it’s just, I’m surrounded by people that are just amazing. But then I have met. A really incredible partner, and he sees things that I never see, so I can sit down with him and he [00:47:30] can, he has a mind that I think is, is worth like millions. Could you give an example of a recent epiphany that he’s had or you’ve had, uh, by chatting with him?

[00:47:41] So, you know, um, so I, I have another company which is called Lock [00:47:45] Stop Me. Mm-hmm. , which was, was, was a passion project that my best friend and I did in Covid, because we’re both in the events industry. She’s not a planner about same industry. So we were the first ones to be shut down and I knew we’d be the last ones to come back because obviously a gathering of 200 people is not [00:48:00] friendly.

[00:48:00] Mm-hmm. . So, um, so I was like, right, being a host, What am I gonna do? I, you know, and it wasn’t even about money. I was lucky because our season, like I say, our summer season is the season that is dead. So when things close down in March, I was already [00:48:15] nearly at the end of the season anyway, then I’d have the summer off, which I generally don’t work very hard, or at least I don’t, I’m not doing events with kind of like planning.

[00:48:21] And then you come back in the winter and then we were open in December, so we missed maybe two months either side, but we were really lucky. So it wasn’t about money, it was just more about [00:48:30] like engaging my, my brain and, and doing something that was like sitting at home doing nothing for months. I would’ve, I would’ve like died.

[00:48:38] So, um, you know, we came up with this idea. And I was like, look, people are gonna be really careful with [00:48:45] money when we come out of Covid. Right? They’re gonna be really careful. Yet we’re in, in, in a place where people, women are constantly having their head and their nails done, their makeup, like they wanna look good.

[00:48:54] And also they’re gonna be sat at home doing nothing. So when things open, people are gonna wanna go out [00:49:00] all the time. How can we make them look better? What’s missing in Dubai? And um, my best friend, she’s, she won’t mind me saying this, so she has beautiful hair, but it’s very thin and long and she always wears these, [00:49:15] these one time clipping extensions in and out.

[00:49:17] And, um, but I’m like, where’d you get them from? And, cause we were trying to think of what we could do, right? Cause we wanted to do something, but we wanted to have, there had to be like this need, but we had no one to ask cuz we’re just at home, right? And she’s like, I [00:49:30] get ’em from, I get ’em from the uk.

[00:49:31] I’m like, why? She’s like, well, they don’t sell ’em here. I’m like, oh, you sure? Yeah. We Googled it. We’re looking, looking, look at they don’t sell them here. I’m like, right, you can buy them here, but from a different country, which makes postage really expensive. [00:49:45] So I’m like, well, why can’t we do that? And she was really, cuz she, she’s, she’s my best friend, but she, she works for a company so she’d never stepped into owning her own business at this point.

[00:49:53] Right? Yeah. So she’s like, oh dunno, she definitely had those like nervous feet. She would for sure agree with me saying [00:50:00] this today. Mm-hmm. . And she’s like, oh, I don’t know. And I’m like, right. I’m just, I’m just gonna order a load of samples, found this amazing supplier. I’m gonna order a load of samples. I will sell her, I’ll get, I’ll get it right and I’ll sell her and we’ll do it together.

[00:50:10] Cuz you know, we would’ve had fun. And in Covid everyone was miserable. And I wanted to just have [00:50:15] fun. It wasn’t about money or about even creating an empire, it was just about let’s just keep ourself engaged. Right. So anyway, I got all these samples and I remember I laid them all out on my soap. Was it my sofa?

[00:50:25] Or her sofa? I think it was her sofa. Laid them out and I’m like, touch them, put them [00:50:30] in, you know, and she, and she looked them and she touched them and, and they were better than the ones that she was ordering. And she was like, I’m in. And that was it. Like, so we, we. Yeah, so we started this company and, um, what was the question?

[00:50:43] More about the advice, uh, the [00:50:45] recent advice that you received. Okay. Right. So anyway, so, so in covid amazing, right? Everything, it was amazing. We did so well. And then events started again and we both got busy and then our normal jobs like kind of took over. So lock’s kind of [00:51:00] chilled out a little bit. Took the backseat.

[00:51:02] It took the backseat a hundred percent. And then when I’m with him, I’m like, I dunno what to do because I kind of, I can see that we’re sitting on something really special. But it needs time and attention [00:51:15] and it needs, it needs investment and it needs, you know, we need to meet constantly. Her and I, which we were, we were doing in Covid cuz we had time and then I’m like looking up my, my, my, my upcoming season and I’m like, I have to prioritize these [00:51:30] clients because ultimately, you know, it’s set in stone.

[00:51:33] There’s a lot to do to plan an event. And I’m like, where am I gonna find the time? And I sat with him and he went through like the website, the numbers, the the percentage that we would spend on advertising. And he worked out [00:51:45] and he did it all in his head. And he was like, right, you need to spend this, this, this, and this.

[00:51:49] This is what you do. I’m wrong. This is what the website needs to do, da da da. And I’m like, what? How do you know all that? But it’s because he’s, he’s, you know, had his hands in sort of many [00:52:00] pots and he’s had a lot of experience. He’s been in Dubai for a really long time. And, um, he really made me see things how I, I don’t wanna tell you all my secrets, that’s why I’m being, I’m not answering the question.

[00:52:11] I, I know. Tell me exactly all the secrets. , [00:52:15] I, I want it. Um, no. So he basically, like, he was working. , for example, what, what our profit margins were, right? That’s where he started. He was like, I wanna understand what your profit margins, can you afford to do this wholesale? Yeah. Can you afford [00:52:30] to, um, you know, go into, can you afford a shop?

[00:52:33] If you were to create a shop, can you afford the overheads of the shop? And he saw, he was looking at it from a completely different perspective to what Nicky and I had ever looked at it, ever. And, um, it really made me realize that we were really [00:52:45] blessed when it came to finding the right project and the, the product and getting it an affordable price for us.

[00:52:51] But then the branding, we really focus on a lot in Covid. So the branding was really, really strong and we created a really, like good branding. It’s just that [00:53:00] all our problem is, is just getting in front of the clients. Yeah. So he was like saying you couldn’t actually afford to spend X amount on this because then this could give you a return.

[00:53:08] The average return is this. He goes into the website and he. If on particular days we’ve had more traffic on the website than [00:53:15] before, and then he’s like, right, why did you have more traffic on this day? Go to Instagram. Oh, we did this certain post, which was a, you know, because of X, Y, and Z. So he’s just like, he’s, he, he sees things that I don’t see.

[00:53:26] Yeah. His, his strengths are not my strengths. Yeah. So as [00:53:30] long as they’re into things that you’re not, like, for example, Alina and I balance each other out. I’m the numbers guy, but she’s the actual creative person. Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. . She’s the zero to one person where she gets started with something immediately.

[00:53:42] Idea to execution is super fast [00:53:45] for her. I’m very slow going from zero to one. But she gets stuck at one to N mm-hmm. . So going, it’s easy to get started, but not easy to scale. And then I’ve got that too. And then I’ve got the one to end part nailed down. Cuz I’ve been a corporate [00:54:00] employee for 10 plus years.

[00:54:01] Right. That’s what they paid me to do. To have something that’s already an existing business and take it to the next level. Uh, and we do keep trying to find, uh, these kind of people that fill in the gaps for us in different areas. Not, not [00:54:15] as in searching for them. They disappear in your life. And that’s the part about Dubai that I would agree with you.

[00:54:19] They just, if you put those intentions out, and it’s so funny that happens sometimes that my mind will be circulating with certain challeng or problem and the person disappears with mm-hmm. with, you know, somewhat of a [00:54:30] solution or thought that I Wow. Who’s, who’s listening? Yeah. Like, uh, someone out there is looking out for me.

[00:54:36] Um, I wanna talk about partners next. So you are in a kind of business and similar to ours that we end up engaging. You know, people from [00:54:45] outside our companies to help facilitate, like for the event and for our campaigns. Mm-hmm. , um, how do you, what do you find works for you in terms of keeping these long-term relationships?

[00:54:55] How do you su them out? How do you work on them when you found good ones? How do you [00:55:00] make sure that you’ll always have their time and their effort and just that entire relationship? Over the years, over the last 10 years of running events, what have you, what’s changed from year one to year now in how you manage your relationship with [00:55:15] your.

[00:55:16] I mean, first of all, having the right partners is the most important thing in my industry and probably a make or break. It’s, it’s a make or break. Yeah. Because ultimately, you know, the client is dealing with you, but on the day you [00:55:30] are placing a huge amount of responsibility and everybody that’s part of it.

[00:55:33] And in events, and especially in weddings that is so many people from anything from hair and makeup to photo and video. What if the photos are rubbish? Right. And you’ve recommended them. What are the flowers, the production does? [00:55:45] What if something falls down? You know, like it, there’s so many things. Then you’ve got like photo booths and you’ve got like all these things that, food.

[00:55:51] Food, yeah, exactly. Food venue. Like there’s, there’s probably in a wedding, maybe 20 elements, 20 vendors, 20 things that you are expecting [00:56:00] to rely on somebody else. And if you don’t have the right partners, one of those things can be the negative to the client One. Out of 20. Right? So you have to make sure that you, [00:56:15] um, I, I’ll tell you, so last night it was really funny.

[00:56:18] Um, it wasn’t funny. Uh, the service was a little bit slow. Um, I, I, I won’t say where we were, but the service was a little bit slow. And I was like, [00:56:30] literally. So my team, I was, I watched them put the, the food out and then they didn’t follow with, with wine, right? So I’m literally like, I watched and I give them, I’ll give them two minutes.

[00:56:39] Still didn’t come. So I’m like, say one. , go and go and get them to put pour wine on the table. And [00:56:45] it’s so funny because the client doesn’t see that. Right? And don’t get me wrong, the venue was amazing. The food was amazing. Um, but you know, there was a lot going on, let’s just say that. So it’s, it’s also my job to make sure that we maximize the, the, the vendor [00:57:00] that’s there, right?

[00:57:00] So the vendor’s already a great vendor. It’s a great hotel, they have great food, but sometimes maybe the staff just might need a little reminder. Can you go and do that? So it’s kind of like you working together. They saw how I heightened the experience of the guests by encouraging their [00:57:15] staff. Mm-hmm.

[00:57:15] And then that was mentioned in the speech. So the speech was like literally the best, man. I couldn’t believe it. He was like, I’ve gotta tell you, I’ve had my wine glass in my hand tonight and it’s never been empty. But he didn’t know that that was, because I was like, make sure, make sure, make sure. But then [00:57:30] the, the, the venue appreciate it cuz it’s not like, Pushing them if you do it in the right way.

[00:57:35] Um, you know, they, they then will, you know, they, they get themselves into the routine for the expectation of what mine is and what the client is. Yeah. And everybody’s happy at the [00:57:45] end. So I think it’s just an answer to your question. It’s just about obviously finding the right partners, but then keeping them for sure is really about how you treat them.

[00:57:54] Yeah. Um, making sure that you are organized on their behalf because they ultimately, they’re turning up on a day, they don’t know [00:58:00] anything about the day. Um, in terms of, in terms of finding them. Right. It’s a lot of the time you don’t fully know until they show up on the day and do the work that they say.

[00:58:10] Mm-hmm. , because everyone has nice sales pitches and nice brochures and websites and everyone’s great on [00:58:15] discovery calls and stuff like that. Um, even if they’ve come through a good referral, you still have to kind of find out if they would work well with you. Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. , just because they worked well with this other person doesn’t mean they work with you.

[00:58:27] Have you found. A way to [00:58:30] pick out red flags, for example? Or do you kind of, if you’re trying out a new vendor, are you extra on the edge on the day of, um, or are you trying to bring out red flags before it, uh, as well, like what’s your interview process like [00:58:45] for, for a new vendor to reduce the risk for you?

[00:58:48] Cuz there’s so much risk in There’s a lot of risk. Yeah. For me, I mean, the lovely thing about my industry is that we are really a fraternity, right? So we all, even though we’re all competing against each other, which we kind of are, but we’re kind of [00:59:00] not because we’ve all got our own little niches. We all, we’re all there to help each other.

[00:59:04] And, um, that’s, that’s one of the, it’s one of the industries. I think there’s very rare Yeah. Where you can go to a competitor and be like, can you help me with this? And they’re like, sure. What do you need? There’s a, there’s a word for that. [00:59:15] Cooperation. . It’s competition and cooperation. The same word. I love that cooperation.

[00:59:19] I’ve never heard that before. I love it. Um, so. I nearly, nearly always will work on a recommendation basis. Okay. If, for example, I [00:59:30] mean, I get so many sales emails, so many sales calls we wanna work with, you wanna work with you mm-hmm. , and sometimes I’ll get a call or an email just at the right time where I’m looking for that and I’m like, okay, I’m looking for that.

[00:59:44] You’ve kind of [00:59:45] just walked into my life. So then a hundred percent I would meet them. Um, if it’s a service where, um, they’re performing, for example, I’d need to see like plenty videos. Like last night, the DJ that I worked with, never worked with him before. Um, came on a [01:00:00] really strong recommendation from a singer that I work with, who I trust explicitly.

[01:00:04] Um, and then yeah, saw a couple of things, but that was enough. If it was another DJ where I’d never didn’t have the recommendation, I’d be wanting to see reels and reels and reels and reels of, of [01:00:15] footage to see. And they don’t really capture that. So it’s actually really hard to get. Proof. Yeah. That they’re gonna be able to keep guests on the dance floor.

[01:00:23] Mm-hmm. as well. So it is tough, but I would say that because it’s nearly always on a recommendation, it makes me feel way [01:00:30] more comfortable. And I have certain planners that I go to that I trust explicitly as well. Mm-hmm. , and they, they’re rocking it in their, in, in, in their, um, their niche of, of events and I just trust them.

[01:00:42] Yeah. And I think that that is, having, having [01:00:45] trust and having the right people to go and ask is really important. Absolutely. We get tons of, uh, people reaching out to us to partner and all these, again, cooperation kind of situation. They are also an agency, but they do some other thing better than the others.

[01:00:57] Yep. And they don’t want to do X, Y, Z. They want us [01:01:00] to do it. And it’s so hard for us. We’ve been burned a bunch of times, right? Yeah. We’ve tried them out. Uh, we’ve tried to do tests in the past as well, like a mock day, um, which is very expensive for you to do, I’m guessing, doing a mock event. Yeah. We’ve done it.

[01:01:14] We’ve done like [01:01:15] mock setups. Yeah. But not like a mock day, like a full fall. It’s way more expensive to put that together than it is a digital exercise that we can do. Uh, but yeah, maybe we need to like, put out feelers towards more recommendations. [01:01:30] Um, we haven’t really, since we’ve been here, we’ve been so focused on our own kind of business that we haven’t joined the fraternity of local agency owners and I’m sure there are tons of them.

[01:01:39] Mm-hmm. , uh, we have been a part of one international one, so we’re on Discord group. Um, and then we all [01:01:45] just kind of chat in there and a lot of them are moving to Dubai. Um, and that’s actually, you’re right. And that’s one of the best recommendations come from it’s if there is, um, a trust network, a network that you trust already, and anything they recommend is gonna be good.

[01:01:59] Mm-hmm. , they would never [01:02:00] put their weakest foot forward. Um, okay. Talking about partners to clients now. Mm-hmm. . We’ll do it in a nice way. , do you end up, uh, qualifying clients or do you take [01:02:15] everything that comes your way and. , how do you, how do you work that prog, uh, process of qualifying, like, okay, this is something I don’t want to work on.

[01:02:24] Mm-hmm. doesn’t seem like the right fit for x, y, z reason, and you don’t have to get into the reasons, but [01:02:30] are you finding yourself better at saying no? Mm-hmm. definitely than you were when you first started? Yep. A hundred percent. I definitely, it’s funny, I was talking about this with another planner the other day and, and we were laughing cause we were like, they, you know, they come, a client will reach out to us when we’ll sit with [01:02:45] them and we’ll go through.

[01:02:46] And he was like, it’s so funny because they think they’re interviewing us, but we’re interviewing them too. Right. And, you know, and we’re getting, and definitely it’s something that I learned my lesson, it’s another story. But, um, yeah, I, I, I’ve definitely, I’m definitely more [01:03:00] picky about who I would, who I would work with.

[01:03:02] A hundred percent. Because the thing is, is like we can plan a wedding for a year, two years, right? I mean, it’s not as popular as that in the Middle East and Middle East. Our turnaround time’s about four to five months. Um, for a full wedding production. But, um, [01:03:15] yeah, you still, even in that time, even if it was four months, you still spend a lot of time back and forth, you know, like I’ve, I’ve got a life as well and I want to, you know, avoid as much stress in my life as possible.

[01:03:27] And you have to make sure that you have that vibe to work [01:03:30] together, that you’re gonna get on, you’re gonna be able to reach their expectations, hopefully exceed them, and, um, you know, yeah, a hundred percent. So it is something that I definitely do, and I actually, when I sit down with clients, especially social clients, I’ll [01:03:45] say to them, you need to go and meet at least three wedding planners as well as me or event planners, if it’s not, if it’s not wedding.

[01:03:51] And you just have to see how you feel with them, because if there’s a vibe there, you’ll know. Yeah. And, um, and I say it to every. And you know, I, I mean I [01:04:00] like to think that my conversion rate is quite high, but if it’s, if it doesn’t convert, it’s because it’s not meant to be mm-hmm. . And sometimes I’ll even sit with a client and say, actually I know someone that’s a better fit for you than me.

[01:04:09] Mm-hmm. , and this is good confirmation cuz we, we always thought we were a bit off our game cause [01:04:15] we started behaving like this very early into our business within the first six months being very picky. Mm-hmm. . And we were advised by our close friends who have been running businesses, but family businesses, generational businesses.

[01:04:27] And they had the mindset of take everything you can get. [01:04:30] And uh, maybe that’s also another reason we didn’t. make too much of an effort with the local fraternity of agencies, marketing agencies, cuz we heard messages like that through them. Mm-hmm. and every time we met them it’s like, oh, you know, I’m working at dirt cheap rates, but I just wanted to work on this [01:04:45] client, so, oh, the client doesn’t respect me, calls me.

[01:04:47] I’m like, but why do you have to put up with it? Mm-hmm. , oh. Cause he’s paying, how much is he paying? Paying peanuts? Okay, so why you say, why exactly. So it, it’s a lose lose situation. Yeah. And um, Alina and I thought about why we got into business, the whole why of getting [01:05:00] into business. One was to be around people.

[01:05:02] Mm-hmm. and we like being around. Mm-hmm. because we’re gonna get them good results. Only if we can also be friends with them. It’s not a hard. Um, checkbox that I have to be your friend, but like we have to jam mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. , as you said, vibe with each [01:05:15] other pretty well. And every now and then, um, we get into this phase where we get a ton of leads mm-hmm.

[01:05:22] and our conversion rate is crap’s because we are rejecting them. Mm-hmm. , we have a whole discovery call. We go back and discovery, call this phrased [01:05:30] like this. We’re gonna use this call today to figure out if we are a good fit for each other. Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. , not if, you know, if I can do everything you ask me to do.

[01:05:39] Definitely very different, right? Mm-hmm. . And then I’m gonna come back in our next meeting, which will book for a week from now to discuss if [01:05:45] we can help you. Mm-hmm. versus our initial one who used to be like, I’m here to learn everything about you. Mm-hmm. and how I can put together a proposal for you and you’re gonna love me and we’re gonna sign this off.

[01:05:55] And now it’s just a bit more mm-hmm. at the expense of making short term money. Yep. So [01:06:00] it’s nice to get that confirmation that, you know what. , if you take that long term route, and you’ve been in this for quite a while and that’s working for you. So I’m gonna copy that. I’m gonna double down on that. , I’m gonna double down on being picky.

[01:06:11] Um, next I wanna talk to you about, and this is kind of [01:06:15] interrelated with sales, and we’ll get to sales too, but pricing. Mm-hmm. . So a lot of the work that you do, um, I’m not talking margins that you can calculate based on time and materials, et cetera. The intellectual value of what you [01:06:30] do. Mm-hmm. , because at the end of the day, you’re delivering a service, you’re orchestrating something.

[01:06:33] Right. How has your thinking about pricing changed over the years? What’s your base philosophical motive of what you charge when you put out a number? Where does it come from? What [01:06:45] is it based on? How have you maneuvered with it over the years? What have you experimented and tried? Mm-hmm. . Um, and how, how do you land on pricing that you give to your clients without mentioning the price?

[01:06:56] Like how do you land on that number? For, for a certain client. [01:07:00] I mean, look, like I’ve, one thing that I realized, I mean this is going back really to when I was in Portugal planning. It doesn’t matter if you are planning a very, very luxurious wedding or you’re pla planning a budget wedding, the amount of work and effort that goes in [01:07:15] is exactly the same.

[01:07:16] Mm-hmm. . In fact, sometimes it can be more stressful doing a budget wedding because you’re constantly having to negotiate. Whereas if you, if you’re fair in the market, and I think that even though we’re in the luxury sector, I would definitely say that we’re very fair [01:07:30] with our pricing. Um, the, the right client sees the value for money and they don’t need to negotiate it.

[01:07:38] They understand what they’re getting for their money. They understand that if they call me at 1:00 AM I am going to pick the phone up. [01:07:45] They understand that because that is what I do and that’s why I don’t take on hundreds of clients because if I did have a hundred people calling me at 1:00 AM I’m pretty sure I’d, I’d get a burnout.

[01:07:53] Right. So, um, You know, they understand that when they sign, I am there for them. [01:08:00] Um, and there’s a, there’s, there’s a, there’s a price tag ultimately, you know, the service that you’re giving them, you know, on day. You know, I, it’s about giving them a lot of reassurance in the beginning because obviously they, I mean, we get a lot of recommendations, [01:08:15] honestly.

[01:08:15] Um, and that’s probably the majority of where our business comes from. Um, so they already feel comfortable. But then when I sit with them, they really, when they, they sit with me, they really understand from what happens in those calls or meeting in person is, is [01:08:30] what service I’m gonna give them what that covers.

[01:08:33] And I actually explain to them, you know, it’s not just about planning your wedding and being there on the day, it’s about making sure the food comes out hot. You know, making sure that the stuff do this, making sure this, this, this, everyone turns up on time and then they actually. [01:08:45] I never thought about all those things.

[01:08:47] I never thought about who puts the table numbers on the table or who folds all the, you know, folds a napkin in a different way. Cause we want a different napkin fold. Like it’s not just, it’s not just about right, okay, here’s your wedding. There you go. Oh, here’s your event, here’s your [01:09:00] corporate. It’s the, it’s the fine details.

[01:09:02] The details that if you’ve got something that’s budget you, there’s no time to do the little, the nice little things. Um, and I think that when you’ve, when you price [01:09:15] yourself slightly above what would be the normal market range and you put yourself in that different category, then you just get the right clients that come to you as well.

[01:09:23] And if, if a client comes to me and they say, well, you know that that service charge is expensive. I’m like, [01:09:30] okay. You know, but it’s expensive because I give you, it’s not expensive, but it’s, it, you, it’s this cost because I’m covering this, this, this, and this. You don’t, from this point on, all your stresses are off your shoulder.

[01:09:42] Mm-hmm. , there’s no, there’s no price tag to that. And if they’re the [01:09:45] right client, then they’ll understand that. If they’re not, then, then there’s someone else. That’s for them, for sure. Yeah. I, I love that because I asked you about pricing and you mentioned a lot about what you are willing to do and what the client gets.

[01:09:55] Mm-hmm. , because it’s not even about the number, it’s how the client ends up feeling at the end of the [01:10:00] day. Yeah. And if you want to be premium, if I’m understanding that if you want to be premium for, for the people that can afford premium money is not an issue to begin with For sure. Right. And what their concerns are much, much, [01:10:15] much, much more.

[01:10:15] So they’re more interested in the craft of what you do. Mm-hmm. , um, and they’re more interested in the experience at what you do. So price becomes irrelevant the further up you take it sometimes. Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. or what I’ve noticed in, in these kind of service based, uh mm-hmm. businesses. [01:10:30] And that point about when you already are premium compared to general market, you don’t attract everyone.

[01:10:37] You, your lead flow drops. Mm-hmm. , let’s say, but the, the quality mm-hmm. kind of goes up. Right. Definitely. [01:10:45] Um, so when it comes to recurring business, or do you see a lot of that in your, in your industry? Do you, I mean, hopefully people are not having six, same person having six weddings a day. But [01:11:00] is there, is there, is there a trend?

[01:11:01] Do you, do you end up nurturing the customer to get more business out of them for other things? Or is it a once done situation, like one and done situation with your clients? Currently for corporates, there’s [01:11:15] a huge amount of second, third, fourth, fifth. I mean, I work with one agency. We’ve been working together for the last five years and I.

[01:11:23] A lot of events for them. Um, so for corporates, a hundred percent to nurture them to look [01:11:30] after them, um, how I work with them is very differently to how I’d work with, uh, a social client. Um, you know, with a social client, they understand that if they come for example, and they want a wedding and they want to have a proposal or whatever, that takes time to create the [01:11:45] design creative.

[01:11:45] If I work with, if I work with this one, one, I’ve got one particular agency I work with a lot and they’re like, I need this tomorrow. If that was a wedding client, I’d be like, absolutely not. Yeah. But for them a hundred percent I have to make it work. Yeah. Because, you know, it’s something I have to [01:12:00] concept, but, and the reason why they always come back to me is because I nearly always never say no , which is, it’s not always a great thing to say that, but, um, for sure.

[01:12:10] Um, it’s the reason why I’ve worked with ’em for so long. Yeah. In, in terms of [01:12:15] like even pricing, let’s go back to pricing. Do these guys get special treatment? Do they get. Bundle packages when you’re working with a corporate or can it hold your ground? And the reason I’m asking is that we do monthly recurring retainers.

[01:12:27] Mm-hmm. , right? So we charge a fixed [01:12:30] amount every month fees for, for what, what we kind of do. And we kind of get stuck because that price was decided by a two year old me , that two year old, uh, two years later is more knowledgeable, more experienced, more everything. [01:12:45] And we find it almost impossible to raise our prices, which my gut is telling me that I need to be able to raise my prices a hundred percent or, or move forward.

[01:12:53] So what ends up happening is the only opportunity that we get is when our clients pause the retainer or [01:13:00] cancel for a short term to come back at a later time. Mm-hmm. , the message is simple. That, you know, when you do come back, it’ll be our new rates cuz we’ve been grandfathering you for a long time.

[01:13:08] Mm-hmm. . And again, we’ve only been in business for two, two and a half, three years now. So not, not too long. But is there potential [01:13:15] in your business to kind of charge a current worth? You started a relationship five years ago. With an agency or a client. Mm-hmm. . And you just feel like you have access to many more tools, many more partners, much higher quality events that you can produce.

[01:13:29] Mm-hmm. , are [01:13:30] you able to kind of, um, go above what you’ve been usually charging the clients, or is that harder? Um, you know what, I think that, like how we work is that it’s just market price based on the day or the time of the event planning. Yeah. [01:13:45] And they understand that. So this eight particular agency, they work, they, they then have a client, their dmc.

[01:13:51] So they have a client that comes to them. That client says they’re bringing, I don’t know, 600 people to Dubai. And then [01:14:00] they, um, they, this, the client then has to then create the events, create the, get the hotels, arrange the transportation, da, da, da, da. So I’m just literally brought on just to do the decor.

[01:14:10] That’s it. Which is actually fabulous because I can go do the decor and then I can [01:14:15] leave when all the guests arrive, which I can’t do if it’s social. Um, so yes, because of that, they do get, I wouldn’t say special rates, but they get, they don’t, so if it’s, if it’s a social client or a wedding, there’s a fixed fee based on number of guests, based on [01:14:30] how long it is until the wedding day based on.

[01:14:33] uh, like lots of different things. There’s, there’s a, and every time that changes because if I’m planning a wedding in three months where I’m planning a wedding over a year and a. I’m gonna do more work over the year and a half than I am in three months. Right. Yeah. Because [01:14:45] they’ll come back, they’ll make changes if there’s 50 guests or if there’s 600 guests.

[01:14:50] Again, I need more people on site and you know, there’s, there’s a lot more things that needs to happen. So for sure. Like we have a fixed rate for our social clients that they have to pay [01:15:00] just to hire us. Um, if it’s a corporate and it’s like, oh, in two weeks I’ve got this event and I need tables, chairs, centerpiece, da, da, da, da.

[01:15:08] I’m like, okay, cool. And I just charge them for what they want. Mm-hmm. , they don’t pay the coordination fee, the planning fee, because [01:15:15] ultimately I’m not doing any of that. Mm-hmm. , I’m just answering their question and giving them the solution to what they want. So it’s, it is, it’s very different. Corporates and socials are, are planned differently in terms of, of how they pay.

[01:15:26] It’s very, it’s very modular in that, in that sense. Yeah. Correct. Yeah. I like the way you [01:15:30] think. I like how you can separate out different scenario. How and what and how much effort goes into, from my side. Cause that’s, at the end of the day, that’s what most pricing needs to be. It’s like, how, how much effort am I putting in?

[01:15:42] You know that story about, [01:15:45] um, the plumber that walks in and, and smacks one nail with a hammer and charges a hundred dollars and the guy’s like, you just, you just struck the hammer once. And I had this though, I was like, no, it took me 10 years to figure out where to strike the hammer once to fix all your problems.

[01:15:59] [01:16:00] Wow. And that’s why I’m charging you a hundred dollars. Right. Technically he walked in. It looks like, it looks like nothing. Right. Right. Especially the more you do it, it just looks like a breeze. Yeah. Uh, but it took you all that time to learn how to do that and make it look easier and do one guy. Yeah.

[01:16:14] Yeah. [01:16:15] It’s a, it’s a big qualifier for us when, in terms of clients, when they’re like, it’s, when they say it to them, like, oh, it’s nothing. It’s just a campaign. It’s like, , this isn’t gonna work by you. Like, I need you to appreciate how hard this is. And when, when, [01:16:30] when we find clients like that, we hold onto them.

[01:16:32] Never let them go. Yeah. Keep them as much as we can. Exactly. Um, talking about sales for a second, um, cuz we both have backgrounds in sales. Um, I’ve been out of touch with like the [01:16:45] outwardly hustling. We’ve been lucky, very lucky that um, I haven’t in the last two, two and a half years needed to do much cold outreach.

[01:16:54] Mm-hmm. , um, just the universe has been giving us leads and high conversion rate [01:17:00] and they’re all coming through recommendations and friends and family and et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. Um, but now it’s a little different. Those things are drying up. So I’m like, oh God, I gotta get back on my phones. I gotta go out.

[01:17:14] I’m, so, [01:17:15] I was, that’s why I love the business. Cause I’m like, okay, wait, I’m finally in a business that’s selling itself. Amazing. Like our brand is working, like the, the, the reputation that we built in the market is great. Every, every time someone goes to networking event, someone asks for an advertising agency, our name comes [01:17:30] up.

[01:17:30] There’s a discovery called booked in my calendar. Automatically we go to a contract within a week. And that’s been happening for two, two and a half years. And like last lately, it’s been slowing down and we can probably survive with that too, but we can’t fully excel and scale and grow mm-hmm. mm-hmm. [01:17:45] on that as well.

[01:17:45] So I wanted to, uh, get back into my mojo of, of, of doing outreach. But right now just looking for inspiration. Um, do you have a good mix of inbound leads, outbound, like you’re doing the [01:18:00] outreach or is it mostly inbound right now for you? Mostly inbound to be, in fact, we’re in a really similar situation.

[01:18:06] Yeah. But, and, and I’m getting to the point now where I’m like, where do I go? Yeah. Right. Like, I’ve got to the point where your events [01:18:15] is. I would like to think we’ve got a very good reputation in the market. Um, people know who we are. I don’t have to go and find anything, which is great, but it’s also a bit boring.

[01:18:29] It’s not ambitious. [01:18:30] Dare say that. Like, you know, and I’m like, how do I get this to be bigger now? Like, like, like if I looked at myself five years ago now, I’d be like, oh my God, look, I’ve made it, I’ve made it. But then you get to that point and you’re like, okay, well what do I do now? And, um, [01:18:45] I’m, I’m in the process of, of looking at two options for the company.

[01:18:49] So one would be that we just grow the team and we do, we kind of really, really smash more of the Middle East. Mm-hmm. . But my other option is, which I think is the one I’m gonna go for, is I’m gonna office open an office [01:19:00] back in Portugal. Um, and then that will cover all the European destinations. Full circle.

[01:19:05] Yeah. Because, you know, I mean, I must be crazy cuz I enjoy my time off in the summer, but I’ve just got to the point where I’m like, I, I feel like I could, [01:19:15] with the knowledge that I’ve got, I feel like I could go and help someone else get fully, fully involved in true events in Europe. They could have, they could be a part of the business, not just an employee.

[01:19:29] I’d want them to [01:19:30] be, I’d want them to be invested like, so that they’re actually part of the company and then they can then run that with the knowledge that I’ve got. So it’s not putting a huge more amount of pressure on my shoulders, but it’s giving someone the opportunity to basically have their own business, have [01:19:45] access to all of our portfolio, all of our, all of our clients, everything.

[01:19:49] Um, and I think that’s where I’m going at the moment is I’m gonna build Europe and keep the release as it is. Cuz I like being a small team. I’ve got planners who have 16, 17 staff [01:20:00] and. They are stressed, you know, like you’ve got this massive salary to cover, you know, like there’s so many things that are outgoing and events is one of those industries, like in Covid that you saw, you just, you just never know.

[01:20:14] [01:20:15] Right. You could literally, overnight we would just shut down and that scares me. And let’s hope that it would never happen again, but it could happen again, right? So, um, the, the reason why we survived and why it was so easy for me in Covid is cuz my team is incredibly small [01:20:30] and going back to having good partners, the people who I work with, and I work with them all the time, they’re not on my books.

[01:20:37] I don’t pay them. We work together on a project by project basis, which is a really sensible way to do business, I think in my industry. Um, and, [01:20:45] and I, I’ve constantly having the argument with myself, do I bring on people? And grow and grow and grow, or do I keep it like this and keep it at this small point and then have, and then have like another, another thing to do.

[01:20:56] So it’s, it is hard being a business in business because [01:21:00] you, you, you don’t really know what to do that’s right for you until you do it and then you’re like, oh yeah, that was the right decision. So I, I’m either gonna make a call and it’s gonna be the right one, it’s gonna be the wrong one. But I think that you just, it’s one of those risks that you take.

[01:21:13] How long have you been thinking of this kind of [01:21:15] expansion with? Probably about a year, a year, year and a half. Yeah. But now I’m like, and it’s so funny cuz I’m like, right, I’ll do it in the summer. You know, that’s what I say, do it in the summer and then the summer comes and I, and then I’m like, oh, I just need to rest and I travel with my [01:21:30] daughter and yeah.

[01:21:31] Um, but no, this is definitely something now that is gonna happen next. Yeah. Yeah. Um, I’ve said it now on here, so I have to say it. You’ve said it on camera. I’m gonna follow up with you. Let me set a calendar reminder for [01:21:45] March just before summer starts, like so. Okay. Done. Portugal, how’s it going? Yeah, yeah.

[01:21:50] Well, this email subject have, will just be Portugal. Question mark. Be like done. Alina and I have jammed about this a lot, having a small company versus a big company. And when we [01:22:00] look up, uh, in our industry, when we look at the agencies that are really large, yeah. So we’re talking the Ogilvys and I can’t even pronounce half their names.

[01:22:09] Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. . Uh, but they are, you know, usually ivory tower, top floor, [01:22:15] media, city building hundreds of employees. Yeah. Cubicles. And we look up to that and we’re like, don’t want that. Yeah. We don’t, don’t want that cuz we, you’re just making another factory of advertising and then it becomes, What you end up [01:22:30] doing as a business owner would not be doing the creative work, which we love.

[01:22:33] And I think you love the creative aspect of your work too. You’d be managing Yep, exactly. Managing people, managing numbers. Exactly. Such a good point. Yeah. Yeah. You’d be in a corner office somewhere with Excel spreadsheets talking to [01:22:45] lawyers and like it won’t, it doesn’t sound like a fun job. Yeah, yeah.

[01:22:48] Uh, as much as it does. But then the, the price we pay is that there’s a certain limit to, to where you go, to where you go in terms of revenue. Mm-hmm. . So we’ve been trying to, um, really set up the [01:23:00] compromises and, and live with that decision. And so far it’s been fine. Even though every once in a while, maybe it’s social media, maybe it’s other people that remind us, no, you need to hustle harder.

[01:23:10] You need to grow, yeah. Faster grow. And, you know, I keep bringing this up and jamming with this, with [01:23:15] every business owner I know. They’re surprised about how calm we are at staying laying low and staying intentionally small. Yeah. Um, and it comes with the experience. Okay. I’m not buying a Tesla anytime soon.

[01:23:28] Yeah. Which is fine by me. [01:23:30] And it comes down to your own values as well. But we do every once in a while have this like, itch to really grow. Mm-hmm. . Um, we’re having that it right now too. So maybe if I, when I email you about Portugal , you can reply back [01:23:45] and, and, and, you know, ask me, so like a hundred people, , when are you gonna get those?

[01:23:50] Look, I think it comes back to as well, you know, you mentioned before, what is it that you wanna achieve? Right? The why. The why. What is the why? Because somebody’s why could be, I wanna make sure [01:24:00] every weekend I’m at home with. Yeah. You know, like that is a massive why. Yeah. You know, like, or I wanna do this for my kid.

[01:24:06] Like for me, I wanna do this for my child so that she can grow up and see that she’s a woman and she can go out and do whatever she wants and make as much money as she [01:24:15] wants. Mm-hmm. doing something that she truly, truly loves to do. That’s my why. Yeah. But it’s different to me wanting, but then that comes at the cost of sometimes on a weekend I’m not there and she’s, you know, and I’m not with her.

[01:24:25] So you, like, you, you constantly have to balance as well, like, you know, and, and yeah. And it come down [01:24:30] and that why is so important to really discover what it. I think, yeah. So I’ve, I’ve thought and sit, and I’ve meditated on that why a bunch of times. And I brought it up on the podcast with other guests.

[01:24:40] So there’s three reasons for me. Mm-hmm. . And out of these three, two need to be always [01:24:45] checked off or I’m not gonna be in the business anymore. Number one is lifestyle. And lifestyle for me means being around people that I like. Mm-hmm. doing what I want, when I want. If I wanna take my 2:00 PM naps, I, I will take my 2:00 PM naps.

[01:24:58] Cause that’s my lifestyle. So [01:25:00] it’s, it’s more energy related, like, who am I surrounded with? So that’s lifestyle Number two is money. So it’s not the first, it’s not the last, but it’s up there and it needs to be able to give me a decent life. How I define decent is up to me. I’m, I don’t, I don’t have many money [01:25:15] based needs or I work on containing them anyway.

[01:25:18] Uh, so that’s number two. And number three is, it needs to be a creative expression. This business is a creative expression. It’s my mark on the world. Where I’m playing with something. Mm-hmm. , it’s like an empty canvas and I’m drawing or [01:25:30] painting on it. Mm-hmm. , I don’t know what it’s going to be when I start painting it.

[01:25:33] Mm-hmm. , even when I’m making music. So when you start jamming to a tune, you don’t know what the final song is gonna be. You just start moving the strings around. You’re like, it’s different. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. I’m jamming. I’m jamming. Oh, that’s a song, that’s a [01:25:45] tune right there. But it’s, I’ve hired it, but it’s, it’s more of a playing activity.

[01:25:47] Right. So every time in our, our business goes through these phases where I’m always checking, are two of these boxes checked off at least? Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. . So currently right now, if you asked me a year ago, um, we [01:26:00] definitely had lifestyle checked off and money checked off. Mm-hmm. , but not much creativity. I was losing it Oh wow.

[01:26:04] Until I started this podcast, and then I started this podcast. But now our client retention’s a bit low, so I still got the lifestyle, I still have the play and the creativity going. So it keeps me [01:26:15] above ground. The money’s not there, but two out of these three things are there and the money will come back.

[01:26:19] Yep. Uh, if we just put our heads down and do continue to do what we’re doing, we’re not doing. I feel like we’re not doing anything wrong. Mm-hmm. , we’re constantly checking to see if we’re doing anything wrong. Is, is growth not [01:26:30] happening because we’re screwing up somewhere? Mm-hmm. , or is it just a matter of timing or is it just a phase that you need to like write it out?

[01:26:37] And we’re constantly checking that, but, uh, yeah. I don’t, I don’t know if we’re gonna get to ever get to that phase of a hundred people [01:26:45] under our belt, but if you get there before me, please, , please tell me to join you. And you’re like, I don’t think it would be, I didn’t, it was great. No, I don’t, I love managing people.

[01:26:54] No, I, I I can’t imagine they would ever be that, to be honest. Um, can I talk about, [01:27:00] um, people for a second then? Mm-hmm. , um, So you have full-time staff, right? Would you say? Uh, no. No, it’s me. Just imagine no one full-time ever. No. No. Is there a plan to hire a full-time person? [01:27:15] Yes. I, I, I probably need to have two.

[01:27:17] Two, maybe three. Yeah. Have you figured out what kind of person, when I say kind of person, kind of title, job description, that person needs to have? Like, I definitely would like to have someone on the books. I have people that [01:27:30] obviously I outsource things too, right? Mm-hmm. . So, but I’d like to have a pa mm-hmm.

[01:27:34] someone that can just manage my life. . Yeah. Um, and then I feel like I would need, I really need, I would need like, um, [01:27:45] What I would call an event manager. So someone that kind of gets involved in the process, but really can just, if I’m like, right, I need this furniture, this is the budget, can you go and find it for me?

[01:27:56] Can you put it into a spreadsheet? Like all the things, it takes me, like time [01:28:00] that I can do, but I can do it with my eyes closed is so hard letting go. Cause when you can do something with your eyes closed, you’re like, but then I’m gonna have to teach somebody to do that and teach and teach and then fix their errors and you know, so it’s so hard because you’re like, I, [01:28:15] I could do it.

[01:28:16] So it is hard to let go. And then the other one would be a designer. I would get someone that’s on board as a designer. But the thing is, is that going back to partners, I work with such good people. So for example, I have one designer or two designers that they run [01:28:30] a company together. Absolutely incredible people, incredible humans.

[01:28:34] I feel like they work with me all the time and they feel like I work with them all the time. So we kind of feel like we’re a team. Um, nearly, nearly. I will, I would say 80% of [01:28:45] the big inquiries that I get, they, they’ll do with me because I just trust them with my life and I feel like they’re there. So they, like, when it comes to a certain event, if it’s about making an an event space look pretty, making it look nice, [01:29:00] I can do it myself.

[01:29:01] Easy. If it’s 600 people and it’s, they want a massive stage, they want things hanging from the ceiling and they want, like the production is on next level. I can’t, I don’t have that, create that [01:29:15] creativity. Mm-hmm. , it’s, it’s, it’s not that level. And they have that level. So one of them works in weddings. One of them works in corporate.

[01:29:21] So when I have a big corporate, one of them does it. And when I have a big wedding, the other one does it. And they just see things how I don’t see when it comes to big scale, [01:29:30] over the top, like, which is Dubai, right? But then when it comes to like more of the European weddings where it’s a little bit more rained in, like I can do it all myself because the, the expectation isn’t, they want to build a, you know, a new, a new world.

[01:29:43] No, Taj Ma, they [01:29:45] don’t wanna Exactly. So, um, so for me, even though I, in my head, I’m like, I could do with a designer because then I can just be like, right, this is what they want. Go and do it. Make, make the mood board, make this, make that. But then it like, it loses [01:30:00] the things that I love to do. Cause when I see something come to life and it’s come from my head, it’s more special to me than coming seeing it and seeing it come from someone else’s head.

[01:30:08] Yeah. Do you see what I mean? Yes. Um, but yet, I do know that there’s, there’s a certain level that I, that I can [01:30:15] go to. And then when it comes to like big structures, I know that that’s not my, my, my strength. I know it’s not. And if it is on that level, what my strength is, is, is supporting the client on the day and being there for them and supporting them the week or the run up [01:30:30] to the event.

[01:30:30] Mm-hmm. . Whereas if you’ve got massive production and loads of stuff to build, then I can’t give the client what actually they’ve hired me for. Yeah. So I have to then have somebody and that’s when I would, I would use them. But if it’s much smaller, I can do it all by my, [01:30:45] like yesterday it was a much smaller wedding, seven, no 87 people, a British couple.

[01:30:49] And there was no design involved. It was just me. Yeah. That’s, that’s how I feel about this podcast right now too. There is a lot of things that I’m doing on my own because it’s my baby project. Mm-hmm. , it’s, [01:31:00] it’s in a very different phase, right. It’s an inception and it could become a business of its own.

[01:31:04] Mm-hmm. , uh, at some point, a standalone kind of business. And there’s things that I can just do faster. Yeah. With less errors. I know. Cause I have tried, like, for example, hiring [01:31:15] partners, freelancers mm-hmm. that you can find on fiber to help you out and just explaining or language barriers and stuff like that.

[01:31:22] It’s just, I’m just gonna do it myself. I’m just gonna do it myself. I’ll be up later, you know? Yeah. Like, I’ll try to put on a really, a fun, [01:31:30] uh, comedic movie and then do the boring task. I’d rather do that than hire someone to do it. Uh, and it’s not even about being cheap. Like obviously a lot of people can do it cheaper for you.

[01:31:39] Like you, if you bring people in house, especially mm-hmm. , you give them full-time jobs versus your partner [01:31:45] rates. Yeah. Over time, maybe you can, you know, have more margin for yourself. Yep. But then you also take on. More headache and more motivation. Cause when you’re working with a partner, you don’t have to motivate them to come in to work every day.

[01:31:57] That’s, that’s taken care of. That’s on them [01:32:00] Totally. But when you have your full-time employees that there’s a lot more, um, intangible things that you have to work on Yeah. That we, you know, we, we’ve learned over the years as well. Yeah. Uh, so we’re trying to find the right balance between, between partners versus in [01:32:15] house and kind of testing.

[01:32:16] We’re always experimenting. Yeah. Sometimes it’s full time. Sometimes as a partner, sometimes we work with a partner for so long we’re like, you’re coming on board. Cuz as a partners good at what he does, struggling to find other business. Right. So if you’re struggling to find another business, I can give you [01:32:30] a fixed salary every, every month that covers you, um, your food and your rent and everything.

[01:32:35] Mm-hmm. and you get to work for me. Yep. Um, okay. One thing that I’ve noticed, and we will be wrapping up soon, but I want to get this one in before my rapid [01:32:45] fire round hot seat. Thinking big.

[01:33:20] Do you know what? By big thinker, first of all, to clarify, you mean like, I feel like, like you feel like things are more within your reach, so you’re, I’ve realized over the last hour and a half, an hour, 40 minutes that we’ve been talking, there’s something I wanna find out how and where it comes from.

[01:32:57] But you are a big thinker. Like it seems [01:33:00] like the scale of your ideas, um, are still like, I think what you’ve done is still limited compared to what you can do, but mm-hmm. , the initial part is you, would you identify yourself as a big thinker? How does that happen? Where does that [01:33:15] come from and how do you, how do you keep practicing it if you do practice it?

you’re not limited Yeah. [01:33:30] By the size of the things you wanna accomplish, do hustle about It all feels grabbable. It’s all within distance for you. Yeah. Yeah.

[01:33:37] To me or someone else, it’d be like, that’s a big plan. Are you sure? Are you sure you wanna do that? Right? It’s so funny. I [01:33:45] remember being really young and saying to my mom, mom, do you know what? One day I’m just gonna be a millionaire? And she, and she would go to me, all right. And I’m like, no, no, no. And I just, and I just believed it.

[01:33:55] I can’t, and, and you know what? It’s so funny cuz when I didn’t live in Dubai and I would come out with stuff like [01:34:00] that mm-hmm. , I’d always feel people would judge me. Now I’m not afraid to say that at all because all the people that are in my life are like, And, and you will. And it is gonna be like that.

[01:34:11] And, you know, and, um, I just think [01:34:15] surrounding yourself with the right people, you know, because sometimes you’re like, oh, oh, you, you question yourself, whatever. But I just, I, I feel like I have a lot of inner strength, honestly. I feel like I was born with it. Mm-hmm. , I feel like [01:34:30] I just know I’m destined for amazing things, and I know that they’re coming.

[01:34:33] I, it’s so strange. I just, I can’t describe it. It’s like having this inner belief that people have to really force themselves. I don’t have to do that. Like, I’m like, you are gonna, you know, I know [01:34:45] where I’m going. I know where the end goal is, is just about breaking those things down to make it happen and just to get there.

[01:34:51] Yeah. And then surround yourself with people who are your biggest cheerleaders that are encouraging you constantly, constantly to make it. Yeah. I, they, [01:35:00] they’re the two things just, it’s like a double push. There’s one coming internally and then it’s being like, pushed off. Yeah. It’s like double win. Yeah. No, I’m, I’m one of those that has to constantly work on it.

[01:35:10] So I realized this around the time that I started doing sales. I got hit with this massive [01:35:15] anxiety and imposter syndrome, which was kind of true because I was young and I was the first person they hired at my age. Everyone was more experienced to do that kind of sales, that they wanted me to do The Wolf of Wall Street kind of stuff.

[01:35:27] And, uh, since then I, I went into [01:35:30] this kind of, uh, phase of self-help. Got a lot of books, read about them, like it’s now coming naturally to me. no one told me, cuz Well, it’s also the upbringing, right? Like my parents [01:35:45] great intentions, but they’re not, you know, they’re never ever pushed me hard. Mm-hmm. until today.

[01:35:51] Until today as well. Like, uh, both Alina’s parents and our, my parents, when we work too hard, they always tell us to relax. Right. They never [01:36:00] ask, you know, why are you working so hard? And I tell them like, cuz we have dreams and visions wanna come true. So it’s very important how you surround yourself. We grew up like, Hey, it’s two o’clock, take a nap.

[01:36:09] Or like, Hey, you haven’t eaten anything for three hours. Can you eat something? I’m gonna bake something for you. That’s my mom. [01:36:15] She always wants to feed me. She wants to feed me like every three hours. I’m like, but no, that’s taking away my energy to actually do the thing. But they’re, it’s like, don’t work too hard.

[01:36:24] It’s fine. You know, we’ll all get pie, everything will be fine. But I’m like, the things that I do want to achieve [01:36:30] require some sacrifice. Mm-hmm. . But the focus has been on myself so much. Mm-hmm. , uh, relationships, health, et cetera. Like, I’ll still find time to play football three times a week. Most business owners I know will not do that.

[01:36:44] [01:36:45] Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. . Um, just trying to find that balance of like thinking. and getting the supporters, we have the supporters now. I feel, and again, thank you Dubai for that. Mm-hmm. , uh, for bringing to mind that, you know, it’s not stupid to have, let’s say money goals. We [01:37:00] were kind of, it was demonized where we grew up to like, I agree, don’t you worship money?

[01:37:04] Yeah. Don’t you wish for it? Don’t you pray for it , don’t you do anything out of the order ordinary for it? Yeah. I was like, but, but why not? Mm-hmm. . So I look at money as like, just a way to keep score of, you know, [01:37:15] my own value. Mm-hmm. , not because there is 5,000 things I wanna buy, or I wanna live on the palm, et cetera.

[01:37:20] That’s like secondary. Yep. But it’s a personal scorecard for me. It’s like mm-hmm. , how well do I think I’m doing? I’ve been put in here, uh, on this earth, 60 to 80 years. Mm-hmm. , um, [01:37:30] am I just gonna cruise by? Mm-hmm. , I don’t that, that doesn’t happen naturally either. A lot of people can’t just cruise by. Yep.

[01:37:36] But at the same time, the massive big thinking is also not there. So kind of somewhere in the middle. Mm. So I’ll call you once in a while, . Give [01:37:45] gimme, gimme a little push too. Please. Gimme, gimme a push. Aren’t you a millionaire yet? ? Maybe. That should be my ringtone. Maybe that should be my alarm in the morning.

[01:37:53] There you go. Yeah. I saw this funny, uh, uh, alarm that you can set to make yourself go to the gym in the morning and it’s just [01:38:00] guy yelling at you. Oh, that, like, that like, Jen, get your ass to the gym. Get up. Are you still in your blanket? ? You know, I, I set my, um, my alarm once too. I’ve changed it back now, but it was, um, I was here by Beyonce.

[01:38:13] Have you heard the song? No. [01:38:15] Oh, please listen to it. Yeah. So it’s basically like, so for, okay, so for me, mine is, is when, when I get on my deathbed right. And I’ve lost grandparents and I’ve sat with them on their desk bed, you know, and you, you know, you read those moments where they say, just enjoy your life.[01:38:30]

[01:38:30] And, um, for me, mine is, I wanna be happy. Mm-hmm. ultimately, like I wanna have inner peace. And I lived with not having inner peace for, for quite a few years. Um, I, I want to wake up and love what I [01:38:45] do and I wanna make a difference. And I feel like doing what I’m doing is making a difference in people’s lives.

[01:38:53] Cuz it’s one of the biggest moments of their life getting married, even though it’s corporate events as well, which I also love. But if we’re talking about [01:39:00] marriage, um, I’m a big part in one of the biggest moments of their life. I’m making a massive difference to their life and hopefully they would remember me for the rest of their lives because I’ve played, I’ve done my job right.

[01:39:13] And I’ve played that part. [01:39:15] And, um, and that’s, that’s, that’s a big biggest motivator for me. Mm-hmm. . And I think that what comes with that, if I do it right, is, is achieving and is making more money. But money actually isn’t my motivator at all. Yeah. It’s not. Yeah. It’s [01:39:30] secondary compared to the other things.

[01:39:31] Mm-hmm. , um, I’m, I’m just wishing you get more and more toasts, at weddings. We, the wedding I was telling you about in, in Bali, uh, the wedding planner actually got a two minute speech from the bride, the room I yesterday. [01:39:45] And I literally, I said to my partner, I got back and I was like, The part of speech. I had a two minute mention, like he, he be spoke for about a minute about his bride and then he spoke for two minutes about me.

[01:39:55] Yeah. I couldn’t believe it. And then he made the whole room applause me. [01:40:00] I couldn’t believe it. I’m there sweating, like I look a mess. My hair’s tied up. Yeah. And uh, yeah, but it was, I was Well, that’s what you do it for, right? Like those moments, just like those few moments like this so sweet. She was with us because it was, we were all housed in the same [01:40:15] villa for a week in Bali, so she was kind of like always there.

[01:40:18] So we all got to know her too. So when that, that, that toast came around for her, we all raised our glasses and we’re all so nice. Um, yeah, she was, she melted. She was completely, she was completely liquid by [01:40:30] the end. Yeah, because you’re not, you’re not used to having that much of a a I mean, they’ll always thank the planner.

[01:40:35] I think if you’ve done the right job, they’ll, in the speech they’ll always thank you. But to have such a long, long show is nice. Yeah. Well I’m wishing for more and more of that for you. I do have a rapid fire [01:40:45] around, oh, up for it. Okay. No, I’ll, I’ll start with something easy. Okay. Ice cream or gelato. Is it not the same?

[01:40:52] No. Is it hot? No. Is it hot? No. Ice cream. Then I’m making for you . Love that answer. [01:41:00] No one’s ever said that. Oh, I’m gonna get No. Right. Okay. I’ll, I won’t mess up anymore. Okay. No, I’ll just give you an answer. I’m not gonna respond. This one’s really easy. Very easy. I mean, really hard, exciting flexibility that leads to volatile results [01:41:15] or boring consistency that leads to Sure.

[01:41:18] Results. Oh, no, definitely the first one. A hundred percent. Yeah. Yeah. All right. I’d expect nothing less. Spa Day or Shopping Spa Day. Yeah. Mm-hmm. . Okay. If you weren’t living in Dubai [01:41:30] or Portugal, where would you be? Such a odd question. Um, I would probably say, I’m gonna say Marea. Nice. Yeah. I have not been, I will go now.

[01:41:43] I’m, I’m basically making a travel [01:41:45] list after I ask every one of my guests questions. So, favorite Netflix show? Well, TV show of all time, but not released in 2022. This is so embarrassing. Okay. Am I ready for [01:42:00] this? No, , because it just sounds so bad. Okay. How to get Away with Mud

[01:42:09] Oh, good. Okay. I can’t even explain it. I just think the actors are amazing and the plot is just [01:42:15] hilarious. It was just brilliant. I’m gonna be very careful. Yeah, I would, I’m not gonna email you about what you got. . Um, you mentioned, uh, the success principles already. Mm-hmm. , but is there another book you think every business owner should read?

[01:42:29] [01:42:30] Um, to be honest, I’m obsessed with the guy who wrote that, Jack Canfield, and he also wrote Chicken Soup for the Soul. Oh, that’s a guy. That’s the guy you, you know too, obviously, you know. Yeah. Yeah. Um, and there’s just a couple of standout things that I’ve read through the books [01:42:45] or Food, chicken Soup for the Soul.

[01:42:46] Yeah. And, and I, they’ve resonated with me forever and ever and ever. Awesome. I’ve already asked a big company or small company. One, um, last question. Rapid fire, if you were to stop working in the events industry, okay. [01:43:00] What would you be doing instead? Oh, that I love what I do. I had a gun to your head and could never work in the events industry again.

[01:43:09] I would answer and say, I’ve made so much money doing what I do, I’m gonna [01:43:15] retire live on the beach. , you’d rather die than give up a bit. I would rather die. Um, no. Do you know what for sure it would be something. It, I dunno what it would be, but it would be something, doing something similar where I’m meeting clients, I’m with clients, I’m [01:43:30] doing something for them to make their lives better.

[01:43:32] Okay. I don’t what that is, but that’s what it was. So events then , so basically events. Um, I’ve had so much fun in this conversation. Um, I love your [01:43:45] ability to tell stories by the way. That’s, that makes it, that makes a, I always get sidetracked though. I got sidetracked twice. I brought you back. What was the question?

[01:43:51] Told you? I’m always listening. . Um, but no, apart from the stories too, there’s so much wisdom and, uh, things I will copy . Very polite. , [01:44:00] Alina would really enjoy this episode as well. And that’s who we do it for. We do it for ourselves more than anything else. Mm-hmm. , um, thank you so much for this. I wanted to ask you if you had a billboard on Shake Side Road.

[01:44:13] Mm-hmm. . And you wanted to [01:44:15] get a message out to the world. Mm-hmm. , non-commercial. Don’t say, you know, sign up my events company. Mm-hmm. , what would you wanna say? Um, is it for my company? No, it can’t be commercial. It can’t be commercial. I would say [01:44:30] this is really cheesy, . I love the cheesy ones. I would say reach for the moon, even if you miss your London stars.

[01:44:38] It’s cheesy, but it’s so true, isn’t it the other way. Don’t you reach for the stars and [01:44:45] land on the moon? Well, I don’t know how it is. I’m, if you were be in pedantic for sure, that would be true. But the, but the saying goes, reach for the moon London, the stars. I need to talk to whoever Kim was saying, , who wrote that.

[01:44:59] Let us know. [01:45:00] Smart people. . I like that. Reach for the moon. This, this alludes to your big thinking. Yeah, I like it. I like it. And does this involve taking more risks every now and then? Yeah. I am a bit of a risk taker. Yeah. [01:45:15] Okay. And you’re always glad that you took your risks? Always. Because if it doesn’t work out, you learn something.

[01:45:19] Yeah. You know, and I just think that it is, it’s it, you, anybody’s listening to this and they’re setting up a business or they’re in business and they want to take the next step or whatever, you know, nothing [01:45:30] comes easy. If it did, everybody would be doing it. If it was easy to have a business, everyone would have a business because for sure, for me personally, it’s more rewarding to have a business than to work for somebody.

[01:45:40] It’s not the case for everybody else. Um, but I just think take the [01:45:45] risk and, and I have so many people say to me, I’d love to do what you do. Cuz being a wedding planner, by the way, it’s horrific sometimes. But, but to people, they, they see this really beautiful end result and they’re like, oh my God, I’d love to do what you do.

[01:45:58] And I’m like, look, [01:46:00] anybody could do what I do. Anyone could do it. You know, you just, or, or they’d say, oh, I’d love to have a business. How did you do it? How’d you do it? And I’m like, look, you go to work at nine o’clock in the morning and you leave work at five, you’ve all those hours in between where you’re working, [01:46:15] probably your ass off at some point, right?

[01:46:17] If you were to dedicate those hours and work on yourself or work on a project or something that you love or something that you’re really passionate about, you will make money. you will make money. It doesn’t matter what it is. If you love it, [01:46:30] if you believe in it and if you’re passionate about it, it you’ll make money.

[01:46:33] Even if you crap at sales. Even if you, you, you know, you, you rubbish at certain things as a business owner, you have no idea how to run a business. You will learn those things. So that’s what [01:46:45] I always say and I think that, I personally think it’s much more rewarding if you doing something that you love for yourself, for your family, for the people who you love.

[01:46:54] Here, here. I love that I need a much larger billboard now, [01:47:00] plan for originally. But thank you so much. This is really fun. Thank you for having me. Um, I hope we can do a round two at some point. I think there’s, would love that. There’s a lot of things I do have skipped over that we’ll get into maybe the next time that we meet too.

[01:47:13] Maybe before we move to [01:47:15] Portugal for the summer . Okay. Cause that’s happening. Right? A hundred percent. But yeah, thanks so much for coming on. Love this. Thanks for having me. Yeah. Cheers. Thank you.