[00:00:00] Naeem: Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to my first business, the podcast. I’m your host name Pervez, and I’m a relatively new and [00:00:30] sometimes clueless business owner. So I wanted to talk to other entrepreneurs and help guide me, inspire me, and help me understand the best way to grow my own business. So now I know you may be in the same boat, you might wanna learn about what mistakes to avoid, how to identify opportunities, and that’s why I created the show for you, my dear audience.
[00:00:46] Naeem: So if you’re thinking of going out on your. Or you’re running a new business or an old one. I don’t care. I’m not an ages. I bring on guests from all sorts of industries, and they’re full of wisdom that you’ll chew right up. And each episode is going to be [00:01:00] like a conversation with a mentor that you never had.
[00:01:03] Naeem: My guest today is Alia Raja. Alia is a personal and professional development coach, corporate trainer, podcast host, entrepreneur, and founder of coaching with Alia. She helps people develop the range of skills that they need to maximize their potential. God, I could use that, but that’s not how her story starts.
[00:01:20] Naeem: After studying biomedical science and then completing a master’s in public health in the uk, Alia quickly climbed the corporate ladder, but as it is for some of you, it [00:01:30] wasn’t long before she realized that the boxes she was taking didn’t offer the fulfillment or sense of achievement. She hoped Aand took her life coaching and NLP accreditations while remaining on the.
[00:01:40] Naeem: And then moving into coaching full time. She initially focused on working with professional women in London, attracting a song, strong following at her workshops and group coaching sessions, and then moved to the UAE in 2018 and launched her development masterclass. And just like that, she’s now one of the leading coaches in the UAE working with male and female clients, [00:02:00] CEOs, public figures, celebrities, professors, lawyers.
[00:02:03] Naeem: Anyone. And she has conducted training sessions for adoc, the Ministry of Education, the Emerys Foundation, first Abu Dhabi Bank, and Alia’s got her own podcast, the Women Who Flourish. Be sure to check that out and, but today we’re gonna reverse the order. You’re not the host, you’re the guest, and I’m the host.
[00:02:20] Naeem: Welcome Alia.
[00:02:21] Aliya: Hi. Thank you. Welcome. Excited to to
[00:02:23] be
[00:02:23] Naeem: here today. Thanks for coming on. Um, there’s so many different ways that we can take this conversation. So I told you before we started [00:02:30] recording that it’s gonna be a roller coaster, uh, in some sort. And I wanted to start with something heavy Uhoh. Okay?
[00:02:36] Naeem: So, so let’s, let’s, let’s do the heavy stuff first. Um, and I figure that your personal story would kind of come out through, through some of these questions, but pricing. Okay. Um, so you’re in service business. You do coaching, you do corporate training, you do workshops. You’re basically charging for your time and your intellectual value, and.
[00:02:58] Naeem: B, and you have to determine the [00:03:00] value for your clients as well. Mm-hmm. , and I’m in a similar kind of industry. We, a lot of the work that we do is intellectual work, um, and it’s not factory produced widgets that we’re working on. So I just wanted to understand your philosophy on pricing today versus when you first started.
[00:03:16] Naeem: So what are the differences that you’ve seen in trying to come up with that magical number, whether it’s for individuals or for corporates? Like, what are the building blocks? Um, and I’m, you know, I’m giving you that time to think [00:03:30] about the different, um, the different building blocks on a very, let’s say, general level that can apply to other service businesses as well.
[00:03:38] Naeem: Right. Do you come up with a scope of work first and then do you assign a dollar sign to everything? Is it based on your. You know enough for me. How do you, yeah, how do you come up with pricing or four years ago versus today?
PRICING
[00:03:51] Aliya: Gosh, it’s, uh, yeah, I think you just took me back even, you know, asking that question and I was thinking about, you know, me a few years ago when I [00:04:00] was, um, you know, started doing this for free, you know, initially, cuz while I was training, you know, you start by just getting those practice clients, you know, not charging anyone and, and building the confidence to coach and, and so doing that initially, um, and then, so for me, I actually, when I started this, I decided straight away that I’m gonna get a coach and mentor.
[00:04:21] Aliya: I was like, I could spend ages trying to figure this out or I can kind of fast track my way a bit, you know, by getting some help. Um, learn from someone, as you [00:04:30] said, you know, at the start. Learn from someone who’s already been there, and that’s what I did. Um, so obviously we, we, you know, we um, we went through this together and then it got to a point where you said, right, you need to start, you know, charging for this now what you do.
[00:04:41] Aliya: And I was like, you know what? Especially I think in this line of work for coaches, you know, as coaches we just wanna just do good, just help people. Yeah. Just help. And then it’s like, oh, if I’m to put a price on that, that makes me a bad person. How can I do that? That feels wrong. I should [00:05:00] just be helping and giving it feels wrong to then it feels like I’m wanting to take from them.
[00:05:04] Aliya: So, you know, I had to do a lot of money mindset work around that. I think it really starts with, with that is understanding that it’s energy exchange as well. Um, you know, you are providing a service, you’re providing a lot of value and understanding that the en the energy exchange you. With that is, yeah, financials, it’s, it’s getting paid and its money.
[00:05:26] Aliya: Um, so I had to do a lot of kind of work on myself in [00:05:30] that regard initially to start and. It was just kind of with small package, it’s something I felt comfortable with. I think it’s always good to start with something you’re comfortable with because then was the first price that you remember. It was literally like, um, I, if I talking pounds, it was about like 40 pounds a session, something like that.
[00:05:48] Aliya: But I didn’t do it per session. I did it per like six sessions. It was kind of around like 250 pounds for like six sessions. So that was my kind of initial, you know, package back then. Mm-hmm. . Um, and so, so yeah, so [00:06:00] you know, that was what I obviously. Scary to charge that, but I was like, it’s not too scary that, you know, ah, but it’s enough for me to say.
[00:06:09] Aliya: Okay. Um, so that was, it kind of started from then. And then I think really it just for you as you start to grow your confidence, um, and by the way, I’ll be honest here, the, I’ll tell you the story actually. I had, um, I did four sessions with someone and three sessions, and then it got to the point where we said, right, okay, we’ve done four sessions [00:06:30] now, the free sessions.
[00:06:31] Aliya: Now I’m gonna tell her if she wants to continue, you know, she’s gonna gonna charge. This is the amount. So I did the fourth session and then I said, right, if you want to continue, um, as you knew it was four and this is the option, and it was that. Oh, thanks. But actually, you know, I ouch. Don’t know if I’m gonna continue right now or like, you know, yeah, it’s great.
[00:06:53] Aliya: Can I come back to all that kind of stuff. And I was really just, I’ll be honest, I cried , I was like, oh, [00:07:00] you know, I was ready for this. And um, I was like, it’s okay. Um, and I was like, let me learn how to do this. Let me learn. Cuz at the end of the day, it’s all about, and this isn’t about manipulation by the way cuz I think there is that kind of line where people can think when you say you wanna learn, it’s not about that, but it’s about the way you deliver the message of, hey, this is the service.
[00:07:22] Aliya: If you, you know, this is the price point, et etcetera. So, um, for me it was just a matter of, obviously as I’ve kind of built, you know, the [00:07:30] services, you know, the different clients I work with and just knowing the value. I think obviously as you, the value that I offer in the coaching, Only goes up. I mean, I’ve invested thousands in my own mentoring, my own coaching courses, workshops.
[00:07:43] Aliya: And so that’s what I bring to the coaching. It’s not like an hour session. It’s like our th hours and hours and thousands pounds that I’ve invested in myself and, and the, the, the content and the knowledge to be able to deliver that. So I think as that, as that increases, that then is reflected in, you know, your price points.
[00:07:59] Aliya: [00:08:00] Yeah.
[00:08:00] Naeem: So when you’re coming up with your proposals or packages or programs Yeah. And you’re defining what you will do and what they will get, um, do you, do you think about pricing things individually or as a whole and does a price change? Depending on who you’re talking to or is it the same?
[00:08:19] Aliya: So I have set prices, so I have, um, a set coaching package.
[00:08:24] Aliya: It’s either like two different weeks, eight weeks, 12 weeks. Um, and it’s a set price. So, you know, [00:08:30] I don’t do the whole like one off coaching or one off sessions unless it’s like, look, I’ve got a presentation or I’ve got an interview coming up. Mm-hmm. . But on the whole, I, my kind of way is about taking people on a journey.
[00:08:42] Aliya: And so the best way to do that is to work with them over a period of time. And I think it comes with that level of commitment as well. I want people who are committed, not like, let me just try this and, you know, if it doesn’t, whatever, but of course I offer, um, a complimentary discovery call. Mm-hmm. , and sometimes that’s up to an hour with the person, and so we really kind of [00:09:00] delved deep and see if we’re a right fit and then based on that, so they pick the two.
[00:09:04] Aliya: But no, it’s, um, the two set, you know, that I have and of course my workshops and then my trainings, they’re all set prices that I have and that. Again, I felt comfortable, you know, over time, not
[00:09:15] Naeem: feel right. How, how did they become set? I’m, I’m guessing a bit of experimentation happened. Did you try really odd numbers?
[00:09:23] Naeem: Did you try going more than you ever think you would ask for and then come back down? Was there, was there a process to get to [00:09:30] something that. A bit more set in stone.
[00:09:32] Aliya: Yeah, I think a couple of years ago I did do that where, and I knew it was a jump, you know, I knew it was a big jump, but I tried it and it didn’t feel quite right or you know, it was reflected in the way I delivered it.
[00:09:43] Aliya: And I thought, actually let me come down and do something that feels more comfortable for me to then be able to say. But,
[00:09:49] Naeem: um, about experimenting with prices, I’ll give you a bit of context of why I asked this as well, right? Mm-hmm. . So I’ve been in sales for my entire career. Uh, so as a new grad, [00:10:00] um, with a degree in finance, the only job I was able to get was one that required cold calling 40 times a day, um, five days a week, 30 days a month or whatever it is, and hit my targets.
[00:10:11] Naeem: Mm-hmm. . And it was insane cuz no one teaches you, you know, pricing negotiation, not as manipulation, but as negotiation, as energy exchange. And I’ll ask you about energy exchange in a bit as well. And, um, I brought that kind of mindset. Um, Into the business where Alina and I, when we work together on [00:10:30] pricing, um, because she doesn’t have that sales background and she has that help attitude.
[00:10:35] Naeem: I just wanna help out, I wanna help small businesses. There’s always been a reluctance in either moving that level up and then we talk to other agencies that do what we do, but charge three times more, four times more. They might, they might be less experience than us too, but they do it with such confidence.
[00:10:53] Naeem: And so we’re, we’re always kind of finding different ways to experiment with pricing. Yeah. First thing that you [00:11:00] said is something that we’re trying to do is like, uh, something that we’ve done is set the scope of work. This is what I do. There’s no, I don’t do many more, any more bespoke stuff because that’s, um, interferes with your pricing strategy.
[00:11:13] Naeem: Every time you try to do something bespoke or a one off kind of thing, you have to redo the whole thing. Okay, it’s gonna take me this much efforts over six weeks and now it’s not, it’s not gonna continue. Is it gonna continue? Uh, so from that perspective, what kind of experiments of these price [00:11:30] points and how often do you, let’s, let’s ask this.
[00:11:32] Naeem: How often do you check in with yourself? Am I charging what I’m worth? Mm-hmm. , does that happen throughout your, did that happen throughout your journey? Yeah,
[00:11:41] Aliya: so I, um, Okay. I think as, as you mentioned, like you have to learn how to sell. Right. Um, and what I realized early on is that, you know, the coaching is only one part of this, and then the business side is very different.
[00:11:57] Aliya: Like they’re two different hats. And so, [00:12:00] I had to learn this a skill in the art of selling. And so this is where my mentoring came in. So when I was still in London, I would have, um, a sales coach, actually when I moved here as well, he’s in the uk. And I’d go back and forth. Um, and I had a sales coach and mentor that I worked with, and we did a lot of this.
[00:12:17] Aliya: And, and then my mentors falling on from that. And it was like, what feels comfortable? And I would have to be coached around that as well and coached into what is it that you are offering? So we, we talk about the transformation that I take my [00:12:30] clients on, you know? Um, and that’s what you’ve gotta think about.
[00:12:33] Aliya: You know, it’s not just a session, if you think about it, that you’re really devaluing what it is that you offer. But you know, they go from being someone who is like, they don’t, they shy away from opportunities. They don’t speak up. They lack confidence in themselves. They’re not looking after themselves, their fitness, their health wellbeing.
[00:12:49] Aliya: And then suddenly, They’re getting themselves out there. You know, they’re being active, they’re speaking up at work, they’re presenting, getting promoted, starting businesses. I mean, there’s ROI there as well for them. But like [00:13:00] all of these things, like you can’t put a price point on that. Right. So it’s looking at the transformation and being like, what is the value in that?
[00:13:06] Naeem: Yeah. It’s not as the fitness industry has it nice, right? They can do a before and after picture and put a tag on this. Like, this is you with a big round belly, this is you with six pack abs and here’s how much it would cost to get there. And it’s so clean and clear. Uh, we’re lucky that in our business that we do have measurable roi.
[00:13:24] Naeem: So when we do our work for our clients, we run an advertising agency and [00:13:30] every time we run ads, we can directly know which ad gave us how much revenue for that client. So we can do the math and be like, okay, we contributed X amount to yours. But, um, the point I’m taking away from this is, especially for Alina Solina and I listen to these podcasts like off, off, uh, uh, around our work hours to kind of learn and improve.
[00:13:50] Naeem: And she’s never had, uh, sales training, but she’s such a natural. But at the same time, the confidence to be able to charge your [00:14:00] worth is something that. She knows that she needs to work on as well. So maybe I can recommend that as working with some sort of a sales coach to kind of charge what you’re worth because a lot of people are worth a lot more than they ask for.
[00:14:14] Naeem: Yeah. And I, I work with some people sometimes and, and I just look at them and like, wait, that’s it, that’s, that’s all you’re gonna charge me for everything that you’re giving me. Yeah. And they’re quite happy to take it. Yeah. As well.
[00:14:24] Aliya: So I mean, to add to that, um, I, I’ve been in that situation as well and I [00:14:30] personally haven’t valued it and I’ve actually not gone to certain masterminds or groups because I felt it was too cheap and I didn’t think that it would be good.
[00:14:39] Aliya: So for me, like again, it’s that perception of if something you feel is underpriced or you think it’s not worth a lot, you don’t think it’s gonna be good. And yes, of course a higher price doesn’t always mean it’s gonna be good, better, but there that perception is there. Um, I’ve personally found that on my journey as well.
[00:14:57] Aliya: As I’ve gone through the, [00:15:00] you know, the, the past few years when you charge less, people want to negotiate more. They wanna like, you know, try and bring down the price they want more of your time and this and that. But as it increases and, and your, your value increases and your worth increases within yourself, you start to attract clients who, it’s just a lot more effortless.
[00:15:19] Aliya: It just more, it just flows more, a lot better relationships
IDEAL CLIENTS
[00:15:22] Naeem: as well. Are you, are you reading my notes? Cuz that’s my, that’s my segue. My, my next question I can read upside down. , my next question was gonna be [00:15:30] about ideal versus non-ideal clients. Are you, are you better now than you were at the start of your journey in figuring out what that means and drawing the lines for
[00:15:40] Aliya: yourself?
[00:15:41] Aliya: Yeah, I would say like, I, I’m so grateful. Like I work with my ideal clients, like mm-hmm , they’re just amazing. They’re incredible. Um, Uh, they’re just people and I think it’s, again, like how the, the sort of message that you put out there. And I think I’m quite clear in, in who I want to work with and I [00:16:00] think even early on as well.
[00:16:02] Aliya: Um, You’ve got to, and I know it’s hard because when you’re at the stage where you’re like, I need clients, I need to, you know, I need clients, I need money. You just wanna work with everyone. Um, and that isn’t, doesn’t always bring, you know, the, the best outcomes. So even early on, you’ve got to decide who you want to work with.
[00:16:19] Aliya: Um, and again, I know it’s hard when you’re like starting out, but I’ve always been quite clear and I think that’s just kind of grown and evolved over the years now. And I think it is really, especially with one-on-one. I [00:16:30] work one-on-one just with women and it’s, you know, women who are, you know, they’re ambitious and they’re committed and they’re goal orientated and they want to put in the effort and work because.
[00:16:40] Aliya: You know, I was talking to someone about this yesterday, you know, when it comes to my work with helping people with confidence, you can say everyone needs to work, you know, work on their confidence with something. Everyone can say, oh, I need confidence, or most people, but how many people want it? There’s a difference.
[00:16:53] Aliya: Just because someone needs it doesn’t mean they want it. So for me, I’ve always been about, I’m not trying to help everyone. I’m not, [00:17:00] I’m trying to just work with the people who are like, yes, I want this. I see the value in this. I wanna work with you. Let’s do it. And that’s energizing for me. I don’t wanna drag someone or pull them, or I’m not gonna convince anyone that they need to work with me or do this.
[00:17:12] Aliya: You’re either in, you sit or you don’t,
[00:17:14] Naeem: you know? Yeah. So when you’re doing that discovery call Yeah. That you do to see if someone’s gonna be a good fit. I mean, both ways. They’re also trying to see if you’re a good fit for them and let’s skip the non-ideal people. Cuz I guess we can, we can all kind of feel the red flags.[00:17:30]
[00:17:30] Naeem: It’s kind of productive to talk something so negative, but maybe shed some light on, you said you, you can tell when people are willing to put in the effort. What is that? How do you suss that out? Do you have kind of fixed questions in there? Are you just checking the energy? Are you checking the flow of the conversation and that discovery call?
[00:17:51] Naeem: Is it about their background? Is it about how they behave? What, what are your key boxes that need to be checked and how do you address that with them? [00:18:00] Like how do you bring it out of them directly or indirectly? .
[00:18:03] Aliya: Yeah, it’s a kind of mix of, of all of those. So, um, it’s really the kind of space for, it’s kinda like, okay, what’s going on?
[00:18:11] Aliya: You know, um, what made you want to have this call today? And I actually take them through an exercise. So initially we just kind of talk and usually they say, oh, I want to be more confident in a work, for example, I really need to, or my bosses told me that I need to work on my confidence or I wanna be a better public speaker.
[00:18:27] Aliya: And that’s the kind of the first thing. [00:18:30] But the reason why I call myself a personal and professional development coach is because, you know, our personal and professional lives are, are very much interlinked. You know, so if we have things that are off our personal life, it’s gonna affect our professional and vice versa.
[00:18:42] Aliya: So we actually take them through an exercise where we kind of look at their life as a whole and we say, okay, what are the other areas of your life, uh, looking like right now at your health, your fitness, um, your motivation, your stress, all these things. And then through there they see actually, I want to work on these areas.
[00:18:57] Aliya: I’ve been neglecting these areas and these prioritize [00:19:00] these areas. And so we kind of delve into that conversation a bit more and they’re like, actually I want to work on on this as well. And it’s about getting started with three key areas. So I say, right, if we’re gonna start with three, which the three that you want to start working on, and that’s where we start.
[00:19:15] Aliya: But then I kind of. Talk them through the process. And I let them know early on that like, you, this is going to require you to, to put in the work. This is not you coming to sessions and having a chat and then being like, bye, and whatever you put [00:19:30] into this is what you’re going to get out. And I’m very, very clear with everyone on that.
[00:19:33] Aliya: So I say, I’m not here, I don’t promise results, but I can show you examples of clients who have done amazing things as a result of putting in the work and everything is tracked. You know, we, we have, you know, we track everything in the sessions And so I, I really get that confirmation from them initially that they’re gonna be uncomfortable, they’re gonna have to put into in the work.
[00:19:52] Aliya: Yeah. Um, and once I kind of get that they go to, then it’s kinda like, yeah, okay, let’s go. Yeah.
[00:19:57] Naeem: Yeah. Do you end up ever a firing [00:20:00] client if they’re not putting in their work? Um,
[00:20:04] Aliya: not firing clients, but we have conversations, we have the different conversation. I’m like, you know what, what’s going on here?
[00:20:10] Aliya: Yeah. And the thing is, especially with my line of work is that. If they’re not putting in the work, it’s because something is going on. And that’s what we delve into, right? So it’s not about me just firing someone and saying, bye, you’re not putting in the work. It’s like, what? What’s going on here? And usually it is something else.
[00:20:27] Aliya: Usually there’s something deeper that’s going on for them. [00:20:30] Yeah. And so once they realize that and we kind of work through that, um, then, I mean, I’ll give you an example. Um, we did a few sessions the other day with, with um, someone we got to our third session and. and I did check in with her on our discovery call the other day.
[00:20:45] Aliya: I said, are you sure? You know, you, you, you are ready for this. Are you sure And all this? And she said, yes. By the third session she said, I don’t know, like I’m finding this really hard. Dunno if I can continue anymore. I said, okay, let’s, let’s talk through it. Let’s see what’s going on. [00:21:00] You know, so we spoke through it in the session and we had the session the next day.
[00:21:05] Aliya: And it just turns out that because she, you know, she says, I’m a perfectionist. I’m a perfectionist. She set these standards really high for herself that by the third week everything should be okay and she should be happy and positive and her lives should change. So we delved into that, you know, her expectations and, and what she’s expected from this and, and herself and the journey.
[00:21:26] Aliya: And then from then and realizing that, you know, the standard that [00:21:30] the kind of expectations she placed on herself in like two, three weeks, you know, kind of was a little bit unrealistic. Yeah. So working through that and the patience and all that, then she was like, Yep. Okay. And I, I did check in with her. I said, are you sure you want to continue?
[00:21:42] Aliya: Are you ready? You know, and she’s like, yes, yes, yes. Because she’s now realized about like patience and being kind to herself, cuz that’s essentially what we’re working on, right? So it’s a self-compassion part. So I think a lot of the time people are very hard on themselves and they think they’re not doing a good job.
[00:21:55] Aliya: So we have to work through that and then it becomes a lot more sort of smoother. [00:22:00] Yeah.
[00:22:00] Naeem: Yeah. And in terms of, I wanted to check, um, about saying no as well. So you’ve had these discovery calls, you are not sure if you wanna proceed, but the person on the other end of the line is ready and willing to do anything to proceed.
[00:22:16] Naeem: And that’s not just about ideal clients. Maybe it’s partnership opportunities, maybe someone reaches out and, you know, in this kind of connected world, every time you go to an event and someone, or even a Zoom webinar or something like that, you end up having this inbox of [00:22:30] opportunities. Uh, I’m focusing on the ones that you don’t wanna do.
[00:22:33] Naeem: Let’s say you already know what you don’t wanna do. How are you at saying no to these situations? Cause I struggle with this so much. I say yes to things because I haven’t, you know, formulated exact reasons for why to say no to someone firmly. Yeah. Um, is what I realize in as an afterthought. But yeah, I just wanted to check with you.
[00:22:54] Naeem: Are you, are you in that situation a lot where you end up saying no? And if so, how? Yeah, all the time. [00:23:00]
SAYING NO
[00:23:00] Aliya: all the time.
[00:23:02] Naeem: You can say no to this question. No,
[00:23:05] Aliya: I’m not gonna answer this . Um, but no, like I had, oh, this is something I really struggled with, really, really struggled with initially. And I would say yes when I should have said no.
[00:23:18] Aliya: And it really comes down to that whole thing of like, wanting to be nice and, you know, not wanting people to think badly of me and all that kind of stuff. I had to work through, um, within myself. Um, [00:23:30] But, and the thing is, I, I had some not so great experiences, so I actually learnt the hard way. So, um, you know, I’d say yes to kind of collaborations and opportunities mm-hmm.
[00:23:42] Aliya: and it just didn’t go well. It didn’t go right. It just, um, the dynamic wasn’t right, or whatever it was. And for me it was, what I learned from that was if my gut is, is saying this is off, listen to that. If I don’t feel good about it, that’s it. I don’t need to [00:24:00] be logical about it and go into my mind, obviously.
[00:24:02] Aliya: Yes, of course, a little bit, but a lot of the time I, I look back and I’m like, I knew something was off. Like I knew it, but I, no, this could be good because of X, Y, Z. And now, you know, like you said there, like there are, you know, meeting requests coming in, like collaborations, this and that. I cannot, there’s only one me, right?
[00:24:19] Aliya: I can’t be everywhere. I’ve gotta keep my sanity, my mental health, my wellbeing as well. But you, but it’s also about knowing. What’s aligned with you. And for me, if something isn’t aligned, I’m like, [00:24:30] no, it’s either a hell yet or a no. That’s what I’ve learned. Unless I’m excited about something, it’s gonna be a no because with me, I can’t hide how I feel.
[00:24:39] Aliya: So if I’m not excited about, I’ll probably show, I probably won’t be very motivated about it. I probably won’t put the work in and I like to, you know, put my a hundred percent into things. So if I’m not excited, it’s not gonna, you know, do do a disservice to it. So, but it’s about, You know, you can kind of say, I think you don’t have to overexplain when you say [00:25:00] no.
[00:25:00] Aliya: Right? It could be a matter of like, thank you for reaching out. Um, this isn’t quite a right fit for me right now. I wish you the best in it. Something like that. Like it doesn’t have to, you know, it doesn’t have to be, you know, long, long explanation and overexplain yourself. Cause I think sometimes you can almost open the door for people to talk you out of it and try and convince you as well.
[00:25:20] Naeem: Yeah. And that’s what Alina tells me all the time. She’s like, you just make people fall in love with you and they just wanna work with you. You don’t, and you don’t know how to say no to that cuz you love the attention. Which is true. [00:25:30] I like being liked and that’s, that’s a very innate thing in, in a lot of us.
[00:25:34] Naeem: I’m not ashamed about that. But at the same time, so the balance I’m trying to strike with these nos is I wish, for example, if I had a log book of every time I said no, because I do have the tendency in parts of my life, , I say no to a point of detriment. So no, to something that might help me grow. Yes, it, it kind of does align with my values.
[00:25:56] Naeem: Kind of doesn’t, but it’s not something that I’m comfortable [00:26:00] doing. And am I saying no because I’m not comfortable doing it because on the other side of comfort is, um, or uncomfortable is the growth and am I being lazy? Am I being incompetent by saying no as well? And that’s just a fear I have. So I wish, maybe I should do a log book every time I say no.
[00:26:17] Naeem: And why I said no. Cuz these values that you talk about, we feel like we have them kind of, you know, in, in, in the ether out there. They’re, they’re there. We haven’t written them down for when we take on [00:26:30] an opportunity and when not. It’s more like you said, like we check with our gut . I don’t always trust my gut
[00:26:36] Naeem: I should, I should, but like sometimes I just feel like, so I’ll give you, uh, the reason why I’m asking. So another friend of mine runs a business, very old school. Uh, in terms of family businesses, they’ve been handing down each other’s businesses and then they’re starting their own. Uh, he’s in his mid thirties and his reaction is never say no.
[00:26:57] Naeem: He’s like, all business is yes, [00:27:00] and I take on everything and anything, and I will not sleep, and I’ll, I need to build this thing. And, and Elena’s trying to explain to me like, but that’s them. It’s the same people that have learned from like a generation ago, that you take a job regardless of how your boss is.
[00:27:14] Naeem: Mm-hmm. , that’s not the current generation. We’re like, no, our boss needs to be nice too. And you know, it needs to be an energy exchange at, at your work as well. But he’s from that mindset where he’s like, you’re stupid for saying no to somebody. If they’re giving you money and they’re willing to work with you, it does.
[00:27:29] Naeem: You [00:27:30] don’t have to like them. And that’s the thing that I kind of draw the line at Solina and I, when we got into business, we left our corporate jobs to not be around people that we can, we can choose our surrounding now. Right? We can choose who to have around and maybe. , that’s less money in the short term.
[00:27:45] Naeem: Mm-hmm. . So the last six month have sucked for us because we’ve said, no, way more than we ever have. Mm-hmm. . And we’re making less, way less money than I’ve ever made in my life. But there’s so much peace. Yeah. , so much peace. And I look back to some of the, yeah. [00:28:00] Clients that say that it didn’t work out with, or we didn’t want to move forward.
[00:28:03] Naeem: It would’ve been a nightmare. Yeah, it would’ve been. It would’ve been hard to get out of. Yeah. I
[00:28:08] Aliya: think and, and you obviously, this is where your values come in as well. Like obviously you’ve seen what peace feels like and you’re like, wow, this, this feels good. This feels nice. And as you said as well, it’s like, You don’t leave, make the decision to leave like your corporate role to then put yourself in situations where you are tied into things you don’t wanna do.
[00:28:27] Aliya: You might as well have stayed in the office, [00:28:30] right? Yeah. You might as well stayed in that. Um, in that situation, the whole point of you doing your own thing is that you have the freedom and that you can choose mm-hmm. . Um, so like you said, if it’s gonna start sucking you dry or make you feel down, then, then why are you doing it?
[00:28:42] Aliya: It’s not worth it. But again, that’s where your values comes in it, because if for your friend, that’s not important to them. Again, if money and all that is, um, the progression is more important, that’s fine. That’s great. That’s more important to them. But like you said, they might not sleep, they might not eat, they might not have the self care.
[00:28:56] Aliya: But then of course that comes with its consequences as well, [00:29:00] right? Yeah. So
[00:29:01] Naeem: yeah, I it’s, it’s the price you’re willing to pay, I guess. Yeah. And I guess some prices were less willing to pay or we’re learning over time as we continue to grow. We’ve only been around two or three years now, so newbies into this.
BRIDGE OF WANTREPRENEURSHIP
[00:29:14] Naeem: Um, I wanna take you back in time again, uh, when you were on the bridge of entrepreneurship, as I like to call it, uh, it’s a very nice bridge. Um, I’m gonna draw a painting of it someday. So, when you were, when you were trying to step away from your corporate [00:29:30] ladder mm-hmm. , what were your biggest fears and considerations?
[00:29:34] Naeem: And I want you to tell me, without telling me how you overcame them, but what was bothering you the most about going out on your own, doing this thing as a fullon career? Um, what was the anti case? What was the, you know, left shoulder, um, angel saying, don’t do this, a don’t, it’s gonna be very bad for you.
[00:29:54] Naeem: What, what were. What were some of the No, don’t do this, um, cases that you were [00:30:00] building up in your mind? I think it was
[00:30:01] Aliya: the, like the first thing that comes to mind is like, how could I do something like this? Like, how can I, like, who am I to do something like this? Um, and especially being, you know, like young as well.
[00:30:15] Aliya: Like, it was kind of the thing about who will take me seriously. Um, you know, wanting to help people and probably be a coach, they’re gonna be like, you know, how, how can you help people this age? And, and with the lack of experience and all of that. Um, and it was [00:30:30] very, I mean, I just, it was very, my, my track so far was very kind of clear cut.
[00:30:34] Aliya: It was like, you know, uni and then job and then my next role, so, Thinking outside of the box was something completely new as well. And I come from the family of professionals and not business owners, so it was something quite new and different as well. Um, and so it was just like suddenly opening your mind to something different.
[00:30:54] Aliya: And the first thing, you know, with this fail, what if I do it and I, and I fail? So all of those [00:31:00] thoughts, um, were, were coming up, you know, initially, um, thinking what if, what if I try and I fail? It doesn’t go right. And yeah.
[00:31:06] Naeem: So you’re massive
[00:31:07] Aliya: imposing. Oh, massive. Yeah. Yeah. Massively. Yeah.
[00:31:11] Naeem: So you have the same background, I think.
FAMILY AND FRIENDS SUPPORT
[00:31:13] Naeem: You don’t, don’t have a business family, right. Is that what you mentioned? So what was the reaction of family, friends, and I’m talking friends that were in the medical career with you, that were not thinking what were, what were some of the phrases that you remember till today about [00:31:30] when you made the decision, like, that’s it, I’m doing it.
[00:31:32] Naeem: I’m quitting. I’ve done my accreditations, I’m on my own now. , what was the support system like at that point? Um, or lack
[00:31:41] Aliya: of support system. . Yeah, it’s interesting cuz um, yeah, you kind of see two sides. I think you see different react responses from different people. Um, I think I’m lucky that my, my family were super supportive of it.
[00:31:54] Aliya: You know, they were like, you know, if that’s what you want to do, you know, that’s great. Um, you should go for it. You know, try it at [00:32:00] least. Um, uh, and then, yeah, I think some friends are super supportive, some not so supportive actually. So, you know, it’s kind of like, um, how can you do something different? Or sometimes if you have the courage to do something different and people’s deep down want to do that and they’re not, it can cause a little bit of friction almost.
[00:32:18] Aliya: So I had to kind of go through that. And I think sometimes when you step out and do things differently, you also see other sides to people. And sometimes your relationships changed as a result as well. Yeah. Uh, yeah.
[00:32:29] Naeem: [00:32:30] Yeah. It’s. It was kind of similar for us too, I guess. Well, I was quite late into the journey, so I was 33, 34 by the time I jumped to ship, family was not happy.
[00:32:40] Naeem: Right. You have a good thing going here. Like you’ve built up a solid courier, you have a trajectory, stopped messing around. And even before I started the business, I’d moved around different industries quite a bit. Um, I’d get to one, I’d get good at it, then I’d get bored, then I move to the next one. And I did that a bunch of times.
[00:32:57] Naeem: And, um, especially my, my, I [00:33:00] remember my mom and my sisters because they come from that background when none of us have ever done business. We’ve always kind of the, the package, the benefits, the, the sobriety of it all. Just like go in nine to five, just having your path kind of cleared out for you. They were worried and maybe that worry came as lack of support.
[00:33:20] Naeem: Mm-hmm. . And for the first year or two, they thought it was just a. A passion project too, right? Like, so they treat it as a passion project where they’re like, oh, you can [00:33:30] always go back into the job. Right? And that’s what we thought, like, okay, I’m experienced enough to get back into the work field without ever losing, you know?
[00:33:37] Naeem: Yeah. My salary level or whatever else might be. So they thought, oh, it’s his hobby. Let him play . Yeah. Uh, but you, the thing that you mentioned there, and we can dig into that, is you start changing who you surround yourself with once you go out kind of your own. Cuz these conversations, like the ones that we’re having, very, very difficult to have that with salaried people.
[00:33:57] Naeem: Or you can’t do that for too long. You can’t, [00:34:00] I find, I can’t hold conversations with salaried people for a long amount of time unless I’ve known them since I was kids, like my childhood friends. Yeah. I can talk to them forever. But, um, I feel like my circle has. Vastly changed to more entrepreneurs versus salary people.
[00:34:16] Naeem: Is that the same for you? Um,
[00:34:18] Aliya: yeah. Mostly entrepreneurs, I would say. Yeah. A couple of close friends who are like professionals in salary, but most of them are, yeah. The conversation is different. Yeah. I think, yeah.
[00:34:28] Naeem: And not to say that [00:34:30] I, I don’t like salaried people cause I think you, you can do really great things.
[00:34:34] Naeem: Yeah. Of course. Working a job and working a career there, there are things that they’ll be able to do that I will never be able to achieve, or the value that they might provide to humanity might be in total more than I would and I respect them, uh, for that. It’s just the unnecessary stressing that we do as business owners Yeah.
[00:34:51] Naeem: Is not really, you know, you, you try to talk it out people and they’re like, oh, what do you worry about? You got a business? I’m like, yeah. I was talking to my barber the other day and he asked me, he’s like, so what do you do? I’m like, [00:35:00] oh, I have a business. Yeah. He’s like, oh wow. You’re set. No, I’ve never made less money in my life.
[00:35:05] Naeem: What are you? But they, they shower this praise on you, right? They say like, wow, you must be, you must be great. Like, when’s your next Tesla coming in? ? Like, not a long time. Yeah. Yeah. So I wanted to also ask you mm-hmm. , um, given these bouts of imposing when you started and the support from friends and changing the social circles, when did you first realize you’re onto something good?[00:35:30]
[00:35:30] Naeem: When did you, that first moment, there must be a lot along the way as you, as you keep checking in with yourself. Yeah. But what was the first time you’re like, ah, I made the right decision?
I’M ON TO SOMETHING GOOD!
[00:35:40] Aliya: I think it was just like, When I just started coaching and, um, made a positive impact and, you know, you’d have those light bulb moments with clients and they’re like, oh, wow, that’s really helped me.
[00:35:55] Aliya: Um, I remember actually one of the first clients that I started working with, [00:36:00] um, we started working a lot of on her limiting beliefs when it comes to work and the way she see, he sees herself. And just like few things she started to differently. She started sitting somewhere else at work and not, you know, surrounding herself with everyone and chit chatting and all that.
[00:36:13] Aliya: She started being really serious and, and you kind of liaising with mentors at work. And then within a couple months yet she was promoted. And that was one of my first clients. That was actually my first client. Um, and it was just incredible. And I was like, wow, you know, um, just because her. [00:36:30] Like opened and she saw herself as like somewhere beyond where she is now, and she moved in that direction.
[00:36:36] Aliya: So for me, seeing these, these shifts, I was like, wow, you know, I wanna do more of this. This is great . It’s fun.
[00:36:42] Naeem: Yeah. Yeah. Now that, and do you, um, do you have the same habit that I do that I continually watch my own customer testimonials, just When I’m having a bad day, I don’t turn on Netflix. I’d rather turn like, look, you’re doing good in the world.
[00:36:58] Aliya: Watch, video test on [00:37:00] ninth grade is the best .
[00:37:02] Naeem: It helps a lot. It’s my therapy. But, but no. Yeah. That having, having that kind of feedback from your first ever client
[00:37:09] Aliya: Yeah. Um, yeah, it was, it was really great. Mm-hmm. so, And then just like, you know, people, small things, like they’ve been really hard on themselves and then suddenly they can start looking in the mirror.
[00:37:20] Aliya: And again, this is like four years ago, right? These shifts or, you know, when I first started it was very much like, it was all about confidence. But you know, write down, at least you write down 10 things that [00:37:30] you like about yourself, 10 positive qualities that you have. Remember one of my first ever sessions and she was quite senior and I think she was in finance, this is back in London, and she, she couldn’t write anything and we just sat there and I said like, I’m gonna give you the time that you need, right?
[00:37:44] Aliya: And then finally she started writing a few. And then to be able to even do that, you know, it was like, wow. Um, big moments like that. Yeah. Kind of early on. So I think just from kind of seeing these shifts and seeing people then start to walk [00:38:00] differently, talk differently, you know, put themselves out there at work and you know, telling their friends.
[00:38:05] Aliya: And then I started running workshops, so this is back in London. I started running confidence workshops and I started bringing women together. and that’s what I loved is that cuz a lot of people on this journey of personal growth, I don’t know if you felt this, um, is it can be very isolating because suddenly you are like, Hey, I, I think of, I see the world differently now.
[00:38:25] Aliya: Um, I don’t just wanna be like just nine to fiveing with my friends and hanging out and [00:38:30] like talking about, you know, bitching about our boss. Like, I want to do more in life. And then suddenly you outgrow your circle and it’s like, this is really uncomfortable now. Like I, I, you know, I’m outgrown my friends.
[00:38:41] Aliya: So I would like, you know, run these workshops and like bring likeminded people together and then like, so that was really cool as well. Cause I was like, I don’t ever want anyone to feel like they’re alone. So if I can provide these spaces and hey, you can meet someone, connect and grow together, that’s like amazing to see.
[00:38:56] Aliya: Yeah.
[00:38:56] Naeem: Yeah. I, when you talk about my personal journey [00:39:00] with self, it feels like, have you, have you heard of Lobster analogy to growth? I’m probably gonna butcher it and I shouldn’t really check my facts before I tell stories on the podcast, but I’m just thinking
[00:39:11] Aliya: of friends when Phoebe’s like, you’re a lobster
[00:39:15] Aliya: No,
[00:39:16] Naeem: no. Is your lobster, although I should, I should. Yeah. I should mention You’re gonna call your wife Phillips though? No, not one of those, but like, so a lobster. Okay. Um, it’s fixed in size. It actually, it’s not a muscle, so it doesn’t grow [00:39:30] with the lobster. So the inside of the lobster, as the organic part of it, is growing and growing and growing until it outgrows its own shell.
[00:39:38] Naeem: Wow. At which point it has to discard and shed off its own shell. At which point it’s extremely vulnerable, it’s afraid, uh, it’s, um, it’s a target for predators. It has to go down to the depths of the ocean where it’s dark and hide under a rock until it can grow back a new shell. And that’s, wow. That’s what I feel.
[00:39:57] Naeem: I’ve had so many lobster moments [00:40:00] in my life, um, just to find myself in those vulnerable places. Like that’s the, that’s the weird thing about doing self work. Yeah. It can actually make you feel bad initially. Yeah. And it can make you feel, as you were saying, uncomfortable. And, but if you, if you start to like, look at that, Or keep that lobster in mind.
[00:40:19] Naeem: Not Phoebe’s lobster , but this one I’m sure we’ll find a way to fit that one into. Actually, let’s talk about Phoebe’s Lobster. Who do you call most at, [00:40:30] uh, 2:00 AM for business advice these days
BUSINESS NETWORK
[00:40:34] Aliya: for business advice? Um, well, I, I don’t call anyone at 2:00 AM to, I’m like sleeping safe at sun at 2:00 AM Okay.
[00:40:44] Naeem: Even my eight hours .
[00:40:46] Aliya: Um, I have, uh, I actually have, it depends on what I need, um, need advice on actually. So, um, yeah, I think I’m, I actually have a few different friends who I’d [00:41:00] call it literally depends on, on what it is. So I have, um, those, those. An experience recently where I was like really thinking about a collaboration op opportunity and I didn’t have a good feeling about it at all.
[00:41:14] Aliya: Um, but I have a friend who’s like very savvy and just really tells it how it is. So I called him, I was like, Hey, I need to speak this through with you. Can we go through it? Um, actually just met with him, like to have that conversation. He was like, Nope, get out. . Like, he just [00:41:30] instantly talked me through it and we dissected it and stuff.
[00:41:33] Aliya: So I think it’s just like, who’s my go-to for whatever the situation is? Um, yeah. And where they’re on their journey, I’d say You have a network of Yeah. Yeah, definitely Quite a few of my closest friends or entrepreneurs as well, so yeah, reach out to them.
[00:41:46] Naeem: Yeah. Yeah. Are you part of any groups locally here?
[00:41:49] Aliya: Yeah, I’m a few, yeah, a few groups. Um, so like a British business group that I’ve joined that, that one I’ve done. I’ve joined like a small kind of intimate, uh, networking [00:42:00] group that we meet every two weeks as well. I would say it’s great to be part of business groups for sure, because, um, again, it’s like how can we support each other?
[00:42:11] Aliya: I love that, like, how can we help each other? How can we support each other, which I think is really good and helping each other tap into each other’s networks.
[00:42:19] Naeem: Yeah. LE’s generally been better than me at the, so she is, she’s a part of a few two. Female Fusion is the one that she’s most connected to and it’s, it’s done wonders [00:42:30] for her and I.
[00:42:32] Naeem: I don’t know what my block is part of. So I am mostly an introvert. I’m an extroverted introvert, and I don’t like being out too much with a lot of people. It takes, um, it takes more time for me to recuperate my energy. So after this conversation, , you have a nap? Oh yeah. I eat a nap. I eat a big meal and like a baby, basically I need my pillow, my double cushion has bunny ears on it.
[00:42:57] Naeem: And yeah, so I need to recover a lot from that. But, you [00:43:00] know, um, I, I’m really lacking that and that’s like a, a reminder for myself to really explore and again, become vulnerable maybe. Yeah. Maybe it needs, needs more practice, right? Like what would you say to people that. That can benefit from groups, whether they’re corporate employees or business owners, and how to break in and sustain being in a group, let’s say, let’s assume that they found the right one.
[00:43:24] Naeem: Yeah. Because that’s another journey of its own. Yeah. Assume you found something. How do you,
[00:43:28] Aliya: okay. Um, can I give an [00:43:30] example of literally when I first started out? Yeah. This is like, this always comes to my mind when I think of networking. Yeah. So, um, I was like, I think two months in, so I was still in London at this time, and there was a networking event that was happening that night.
[00:43:42] Aliya: This was like December. So it was cold, it was raining and, oh, just miserable night. And I was like, oh. I don’t wanna go. There’s no way I’m going to this, um, this event. But anyway, I somehow coached myself through it, got myself out the door, went to this event, and oh, it was [00:44:00] overwhelming. It was really overwhelming.
[00:44:02] Aliya: And I’m naturally someone who is a little bit reserved as well. I think I’m more extra, but I’m, I am still quite reserved, you know, not someone who can just be like, hi, hi, in a room. So I found that super overwhelming. Of course, it’s become easier with practice and over, over time. Mm-hmm. , but I remember, um, having a conversation.
[00:44:20] Aliya: So remember I’d only just started my, you know, business two months earlier and I’m specializing in confidence and started talking. Yeah, exactly. Right. Walking my walk. That’s why I went. [00:44:30] And so, Uh, I went there and then there was this, this guy, this videographer there who I started speaking to and he was like, oh, wow.
[00:44:36] Aliya: I love what you do. I’m going to fashion, London Fashion Week, uh, next week. Um, I’m gonna, you know, spend the day, you know, backstage. Why don’t you come with me in, we spend the day like interviewing models and, you know, fashion loggers, designers, all that. Let’s do a piece on confidence. And I was like, wow.
[00:44:52] Aliya: Anyway, so I went with him and literally spent the day, like a London Fashion Week, and I was interviewing all these like celebrities, like designers and model. [00:45:00] Put together some really great content for that. Yeah. And also a great opportunity, I mean like literally like two months in of me starting. And so for me, that’s always my go-to story.
[00:45:09] Aliya: And obviously people were like, wow, this is so cool. You know, you’ve done this. And it taught me a lot about confidence and, and my content. So for me, that’s always my go-to story of like, whenever I don’t wanna go, I’m like, look, you never know what’s gonna come from that event, honestly. It’s just one conversation.
[00:45:26] Aliya: Or I find that a lot of time at networking events, people will be like, [00:45:30] Hey, why don’t you come to this? Or Hey, let’s do this. So you just never know, like, you know, what the next step could be from that. So yeah, just getting yourself there, especially
[00:45:39] Naeem: in a city like Dubai, right? Like everyone is three degrees away or at least two degrees away from everyone else, and can open doors for you for things that you don’t even know that you want to do and, but you’re already ready for it.
[00:45:51] Naeem: Yeah. Um, yeah, maybe, maybe keeping the bigger picture in mind about, cuz I’ve, I’ve had instances like that. Um, as well, it’s just about, [00:46:00] again, I need to keep logs to remind myself. I think I need like a break, uh, break glass in case of fire kind of book. Like remember when this good thing happened, you need to go
[00:46:09] Aliya: there.
[00:46:10] Aliya: But also just to add to that, I mean, Like, I think to, to be in this line of work, I realized early as well is that you have to have a crazy amount of self-discipline. You know, there’s, there’s no one on your back, right? If you decide not to do anything for three days, no one’s gonna be there. Like, Hey, like, where are you?
[00:46:28] Aliya: What are you doing? Da, da da. Of [00:46:30] course, like clients, you have to shop for them, but there’s no like, manager or saying, someone saying, get outta bed, right? So you have to be like, crazily self-disciplined, you know, get up, get outta bed, have a routine, you know, all these things. And a part of that is doing things you don’t wanna do.
[00:46:45] Aliya: That’s what self-discipline is. It’s like if you go to things, according to your mood, then you know, your mood fluctuates, right? So you’ve gotta be super self-disciplined of like, well, this is, this event is good for me because X, Y, Z. And just like, [00:47:00] yeah, just not always doing things that you want to do or feel like doing.
[00:47:03] Aliya: Right. Yeah. This is why
[00:47:04] Naeem: I have mad respect for people that kind of go into their entrepreneurial journey pretty early. Uh, so look, that was here earlier. He went straight into business after graduating. And um, the reason I have that respect for them is I worked as a corporate employee for 10 years. So I have practice in things.
[00:47:20] Naeem: You mentioned doing what I don’t want to do. Yeah. Having a routine. It, it was given to me by the, by the situation, but then it’s drilled into me and that’s [00:47:30] the only way I work. So I knew when I wanted to start the, my own business, I would have to keep those things cuz they have been working. Throughout, um, for centuries.
[00:47:39] Naeem: So no need to mess with that. Yeah. Forget the whole Silicon Valley. I sleep when I want, wake up, when I want kind of thing. I, I wanna be a professional Yeah. In whatever I do, but matter respect for people who don’t have that much of an experience and still have to find themselves, uh, doing uncomfortable things like the amount of times you do things you don’t wanna do as a worker, as an employee.
[00:47:58] Naeem: Mm. Um, is [00:48:00] at least nine times outta 10 . Yeah. We wanna do one outta 10 things Yeah. That you’re given to do. Right. So, okay. Um, talking about things to do or given to do, do you have, or have you written yourself a job description as a business owner?
JOB DESCRIPTION & DELEGATION
[00:48:16] Aliya: Um, an actual, like jd, an actual job description? Um, you know what’s interesting question?
[00:48:22] Aliya: I, I haven’t actually know. So, um, I mean, I know pretty much what it is that I do, but I’ve not written it out as a, like a job [00:48:30] description. Yeah.
[00:48:31] Naeem: If you were to write it out, um, how long would it be?
[00:48:35] Aliya: How long would it be ? Um, probably. Or how short would it be? At least a page. Yeah, definitely a page. Well, no more than a, I mean, obviously if when I started four years ago, it was like pages and pages and pages.
[00:48:48] Aliya: Right. Like making my own website, this and that. But I don’t know. Page, page and a half, I would say page, something like that.
[00:48:55] Naeem: Not bad. Cuz the reason I ask is I was talking to another coach, a sales coach, because that’s too long. [00:49:00] Or . I, I made one. I was so proud. Yeah. Um, I read a book, the Emit Revisiting.
[00:49:05] Naeem: Have you read that book? Which book? The EMyth Revisited?
[00:49:08] Aliya: No, no, I haven’t Definitely,
[00:49:10] Naeem: uh, definitely, definitely need to pick it up. Um, so the book recommended write yourself a job description so you can find out what you do. Yeah. And I was like, yeah, what the hell do I do? Yeah. And I was so proud. It was eight pages long.
[00:49:21] Naeem: Oh wow. And I took it to the sales coach. She’s like, you’re. You’re crazy, you’re stupid. I was like, why? He’s like, your job description as a business owner needs to be [00:49:30] max a page no longer. And, uh, if it is eight pages long, I said, no, the font size was too big. He said, regardless, , you said you either doing um, too much shit that you shouldn’t be doing.
[00:49:44] Naeem: Yeah. Or you don’t know how to delegate. Mm. Both of those things were true. Yeah. And they still are. True. Uh, so I’m trying to work it down. Mm. Um, how have you found, um, delegating or giving away tasks? You said like previously you’d have something that’s longer as well, [00:50:00] and you’ve tried to bring it down.
[00:50:01] Naeem: How has that journey been for you? Yeah. How do you identify things you don’t wanna do anymore or give. Yeah. And to keep track of, uh, things like that. Yeah.
[00:50:10] Aliya: Well, initially as well, like it’s it’s budget as well. So, you know, when I first started I didn’t have the budget to get someone to, you know, create a website for me.
[00:50:16] Aliya: So I did that myself and, you know, things like that. But then again, I think as you start to progress, you realize that, you know, your, your time is, is really precious and you need to be, you know, I mean, look, I [00:50:30] know what I like doing and what I’m good at, and I know what I’m terrible at. Like, there’s a lot of things I’m terrible at.
[00:50:34] Aliya: So, Why put my time and energy into those things that’s gonna take me longer. And how when there’s people who actually enjoy doing those things. So I’ll just focus on, on what I can do when I, my element, of course, I do things that I don’t want to do as well, but just being super clear and, you know, of course when I first started I was working like seven days a week.
[00:50:54] Aliya: I was working nights, like, you know, didn’t really have much of a routine. It was just all over the place. But now I’m very clear, it’s like five [00:51:00] days a week, you know? Mm-hmm. . Then I have my, my own time, I have the work life balance and that, and that’s important to me. So it’s a result of knowing when to delegate For sure.
[00:51:09] Aliya: Yeah. Just knowing like, what, is this worth my time? And if not, I can just, Delegated and that was it. And you’re getting
[00:51:15] Naeem: better every day at knowing what’s worth your time
[00:51:18] Aliya: to do it. I think it’s still like a work in progress. I think there are still some things that I, I do struggle to let go of at times I do because it’s like, no, like it’s my baby or, you know, I can do it.
[00:51:28] Aliya: Right. I’ve really struggled [00:51:30] with that as well for the longest time. No, I, I think that I still, there is still room for improvement to delegate more. Mm-hmm. . Um, but I think that also takes time to sit down as well and being like, okay, what can I give more? You know, um, what can I give more of away? Yeah. If that makes sense.
[00:51:45] Aliya: Yeah.
[00:51:46] Naeem: Which leads me to my next question then, so, , are you running this all by yourself? Do you have any full-time staff? Is it just
[00:51:52] Aliya: you at this foot? Um, I have a lot of like freelancers Yeah. Who I work with, but for me it’s me and then hiring freelancers as [00:52:00] I need them. Yeah. But I’m looking now to definitely expand as time goes
[00:52:04] Naeem: on.
[00:52:04] Naeem: Yeah. Can we talk about that cuz Sure. I wanted to really curious, how do you scale this personal brand, right? Like your, your whole model is right now built on you. Yeah. And you mentioned earlier in the conversation, you have limited time in the day and there’s only X amount of places you can be. Yeah.
[00:52:22] Naeem: Which may again limit to the growth, um, that your business can see. So how are you working around [00:52:30] that right now? What are your, what are your plans? What are you, how are you thinking about scale?
ON SCALING
[00:52:34] Aliya: So for now, it’s very much like I’m pretty, yeah, I’m pretty happy with the kind of flow of things now where like I have my clients, I run my group sessions, I’m doing my trainings, and I think it’s, as you said, it’s just me.
[00:52:47] Aliya: Right. And there’s only one of me in this limited time. So I’m in a position now where it is. Yeah. About like growing a team. So it’s about growing a team and I’m actually at that stage, if I’m really honest, of [00:53:00] figuring out what that is. Yeah. Because I think you get to a place where it’s like things are good, things are working, you know, you get to a place and then you get to that point then where it’s like, okay, things are kind of just happening, they’re kind of coasting.
[00:53:12] Aliya: What’s the next stage? So I’m kind of re at that stage now where it’s like, what’s next? And I think the reason why I’m trying to figure it out is because there’s, there’s different ways, there’s different paths I can take right now. What are some of those?
[00:53:27] Naeem: So like for example, when it would be like a, [00:53:30] Bringing on coaches and teaching them what you do kind
[00:53:32] Aliya: of thing, or that’s, that’s an option as well.
[00:53:34] Aliya: Yeah. Because obviously when it, you know, there’s, there’s, yeah. I, I’m kind of even at capacity now as well when it comes to one-on-one clients. Right. So I’m kind of like, well, you know, if people come to me, they want to work with me, it would be ideal rather than kind of signpost and referring them elsewhere.
[00:53:51] Aliya: What if I just have a team, or what if someone says, well actually, you know, I can’t afford to work with you. Can I work with someone else? And there’s the different options, for [00:54:00] example, within my, within my team. Mm-hmm. . So that’s definitely one. And I, I think of course for like trainings and workshops as well, being able to train people and, and have a team is something that I am exploring right now.
[00:54:10] Aliya: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:54:11] Naeem: Who would your ideal first hire be? I know you’re still like, trying to jam it out within your own mind, but just so the top of your head intuitively, who do you think your first hire would be? What kind of job would they be doing? What would their role be? What would their title be? If you were to vision it, who, who are you looking at?[00:54:30]
[00:54:30] Aliya: I think maybe someone around, um, like something like around a community manager, because you know, I do have. You know, existing clients. I have, you know, clients and, and customers who kind of still continue to come to my workshops over the years. They continue to work with me over the years and I think like just having someone who can really like, nurture the community and nurture their relationships.
[00:54:55] Aliya: I do feel like I put a lot of time into that myself. I do really try, but I think just [00:55:00] having someone who can bring in more ideas on how to nurture those relationships even more. Yeah, that’s the first one that comes to mind. I’m sure there’s loads that was, yeah. My god. That
[00:55:09] Naeem: came from your gut. So this is your therapy session,
[00:55:12] Aliya: How much do I sent me the invoice?
[00:55:15] Naeem: 8,000 and million out. I don’t know how to do numbers. Um, okay. Very cool. Uh, I mean I’ve been in touch with other coaches, um, a couple that have been on the podcast, a couple that are in my life as friends as [00:55:30] well, and I find the whole business fascinating. Um, in terms of how.
[00:55:35] Naeem: The, the value that you can bring to your clients in so many different areas that you can’t even count for, but at the same time, making a business out of it. You talked about making it, um, as just a thing. I want to help people. Mm. And you can totally do that. Right? Like, I can go today and I’m a very self-help focused nerd, right?
[00:55:54] Naeem: Like I have been for a long time. So I’ve been going to books, free books when I can, [00:56:00] uh, YouTube, um, videos, documentaries, people, podcasts, that kind of thing. Um, and to get paid for that enough to live the life that you want. So there’s one thing in making money, and there’s one thing in making enough money to live the life that you want.
[00:56:16] Naeem: Yeah. Or what your ideal life is, or whatever success means to you. Right. And I think it’s the. Actually, I wanna jump into the sales process cuz that’s a big part of this business, right? Or your [00:56:30] role too is doing the sales. Um, what have you learned about sales in terms of what does alia’s sales process look like today?
SALES
[00:56:39] Naeem: How organized, how do you keep yourself organized? Um, what are your follow up routines? We talked as much, uh, about the discovery call, but what happens after? And also how do you differentiate the sales cycle of someone that came to you? Someone who has a need but maybe not a want. [00:57:00] Um, or a want, but not a need versus someone you think has potential to do better, but they don’t know it yet and you have.
[00:57:08] Naeem: Kind of initiate that sales process. Does that happen a lot where you’re initiating the sales process to someone?
[00:57:14] Aliya: Um, kind of, yeah. So I mean, there’s everyone, yeah, there’s different scenarios. Um, and I think there has to be like that readiness as well. Uh, as I said, I think whoever decides to work with me, it’s important for them [00:57:30] to come at a time where they’re like, right, I’m ready now.
[00:57:32] Aliya: Um, and a lot of the time, people, as you said as well, you know, you’ve read book, you read books, and you listen to podcasts and things like that, and a lot of. People that come to me have already taken those steps. So they’ve already, like, they listen to podcasts, they’re into self-help books. They’ve even had therapy, for example, in the past, and now they’re like, I’ve done that.
[00:57:52] Aliya: And it’s, yeah, it’s been useful, but I need something more, you know, or I start and then I just fall back again. Or I can’t stay [00:58:00] consistent, so this is why I want to work with you. So they come very ready. So they’re just like, I’ve, oh, I’ve been watching you for a while. I’ve been watching your videos, I’ve been following you for a while, and then I want to, to work with you.
[00:58:11] Aliya: Or they’ll come to one of my workshops, for example. Um, then you have like some people, other people who they, they’re interested and maybe we have a discovery call and they are interested, but maybe it’s just not, the timing isn’t quite right yet, or they’re not a hundred percent sure. And, [00:58:30] and that’s fine.
[00:58:30] Aliya: I say, for example, why don’t you come to one of my workshops? Why don’t you come and. Get a taste of it, why don’t you, um, come in and, and experience it with a group as well. Uh, and, and then see from there. And a lot of the time what happens is they end up coming to a group workshop, for example, getting, taking the first few steps and then saying, okay, I found this useful.
[00:58:50] Aliya: Now I kind of want to go deeper. Cause there’s obviously only so much you can do in a group. Now I want to go in and, and, and fully go in and invest in myself. So it’s [00:59:00] kind of like I see the two happening. Um, yeah. And
[00:59:04] Naeem: how, how long do you take them on this journey for? So there is a bit of nurturing that happens for the Yeah.
[00:59:10] Naeem: The ones that are Luke warm, for the ones that are already there ready. Right. But the, for the ones that need some nurturing, um, slight pushes, slight nudges. How often do you have a cutoff for yourself? Like, okay, after this point I’m not gonna. Remind them or chase them, or do you have a system built out to kind of like, just keep them in the loop?
[00:59:29] Aliya: So, [00:59:30] I mean, obviously being present on like social media, um, and then having emails as well, keeping people warm through those channels, um, is obviously, you know, very good and useful. But, um, I mean, I’ll give you an example. Um, someone who I’m working with right now, she reached out to me during the pandemic, so literally 2020.
[00:59:49] Aliya: And. You know, she was like, I really need help with my confidence. Um, it’s, you know, I’m not having a good time at work. But then at the time, she just didn’t decide to, to sign up. She was like, [01:00:00] mm, I’m gonna give it some thought. Or whenever I’m like, okay, that’s fine. You know, come back, you know when you’re ready.
[01:00:04] Aliya: But of course, she still follow me on, on social and, you know, emails and see me and everything. And then I sent an email, I think it was, I don’t know, a few weeks. It was about three months ago now. Yeah. Uh, three months ago I sent an email and she replied to that email being like, hi. I want to work with you now.
[01:00:20] Aliya: She applied to the 2020 email, actually. Mm-hmm. , um, asking about that same, you know, coaching that we spoke about, and she’s like, and then we had a call. I said, let’s get on a call. And she was [01:00:30] like, it’s still really bad, but it’s even worse now. And my, you know, boss is telling me that I need to work on this, so, so I want, I’m ready now.
[01:00:36] Aliya: But it’s a result of like just being there, like, just being present. I think you should never like force anyone or push anyone and cuz that’s, that’s not right. I don’t, I don’t believe in that. I think just nurture them, be present, give value, and when they’re ready and people have that readiness, they’re like, okay, that now hits me, or this has happened in my life now.
[01:00:58] Aliya: It happens all the time where people say, you know, I’ve [01:01:00] been following you for a while, but I decided now because I’m going through this to reach out to you. Yeah. So I think just having that consistency, which builds trust and then people will eventually reach out when it’s the right
[01:01:10] Naeem: time. Absolutely true.
[01:01:11] Naeem: We did a webinar two years ago. And, uh, yesterday I had a discovery call with someone that was on that, like, yeah, I came to that webinar. I’ve been following you guys for two years. Um, I wasn’t ready at the time, didn’t have the budget, but now I, I can afford you guys. So like, let’s have a chat. Like, wow.
[01:01:29] Naeem: You know, [01:01:30] the, the whole process, um, that we were taught as sales people. Yeah, it’s, my mindset has changed a lot on that and I’m still trying to find my balance. So we were taught, you call these people until they tell you to f off . Yeah. That was a strategy, right? Cuz we were. Selling financial derivatives.
[01:01:50] Naeem: These are high value clients and uh, they’re busy people. And what we were told by our management and other people are doing well in the company is that you call until they tell you [01:02:00] to not call or use the words, put me on the do not call list. So very aggressive. You can imagine a bunch of chads, uh, which is just us with high testosterone.
[01:02:09] Naeem: I had the lowest, but they all had high testosterone and it suits dressing up every day. 8:00 AM ready to pound the phones. If you’ve seen, uh, Wolf of Wall Street. Yeah, yeah. Could movie minus the midgets. But we, that’s what we were, because it’s in Canada, so we’re still polite. Um, but yeah, we were doing that day in, day out, just pressing people.
[01:02:27] Naeem: Luckily, none of the stuff that we were selling [01:02:30] was illegal. Orate. Like it stuff works. It’s just we had to push people. And now that I do business with Alina, which her style is more like yours, like I’ll give value. If they want, they can come to me. Yeah. But I’m not gonna follow anyone around. So we kind of made up a rule.
[01:02:47] Naeem: where we do seven touchpoints until we expect a sale. Yeah. Um, and a touchpoint could be anything you want. It could be the initial discovery call to a follow up email, to a WhatsApp message, to, um, an email blast [01:03:00] going to them, whatever it is after seven, then they’re just out into nurturing. Then we’re not expecting that.
[01:03:05] Naeem: But for that first seven touch points we’re. Let’s say semi aggressively chasing them. Yeah. Or following up with them. Uh, but yeah, we, we, we don’t get results from that. We get results from people like the one I talked about yesterday who watched the webinar two years ago. Yeah. Found themselves to be ready.
[01:03:22] Naeem: Yeah. And then they, they came along
[01:03:24] Aliya: for the journey. Yeah. I, I think it’s cuz I know what I don’t like and I don’t want to do that to anyone else. Like, I hate [01:03:30] aggressive selling, I hate icky selling. I hate manipulative selling, I hate just anything that feels icky. And so I’m really like conscious of that.
[01:03:38] Aliya: And I know a lot of the icky stuff really works. I know a lot of the aggressive stuff really works well. That’s why they’re doing it. It’s been working for centuries of course. And uh, but it’s very masculine energy as well. It is very masculine and it’s very, and I think I. Um, I, I ended up working with a mentor who’s all about the feminine energy way of working actually.
[01:03:57] Aliya: And it was very, very like in, very [01:04:00] interesting. And it was all about you can run, you can run a successful business and do really well by, in a, in a feminine way. Yeah. And so I was like, that for me sounds that it, like it resonates more rather than this whole aggress and it doesn’t even feel good to me. I don’t wanna be aggressively chasing people and, and be annoying and I can’t do that.
[01:04:19] Aliya: Yeah. So again, it’s what feels right for you, I think, um, yeah.
[01:04:24] Naeem: Yeah. I think, I think you, you learn, you learn from your own results too. Yeah. Um, and results in terms of [01:04:30] what comes out of it in the business and, and how it makes you feel. Like how does it, uh, upset my stomach when I’m trying to be too aggressive?
[01:04:36] Naeem: It doesn’t feel right. Yeah. And I do have low testosterone, like biomedical tests. Was around three sisters and I, so I feel like, okay. I’ve been trying to force my masculine energy where I, where I feel like I have a bit more balance and maybe leaning a bit more towards a balance of both is, is better for me and dropping the whole aggressive, we gotta call these guys and I’m gonna [01:05:00] send them these many emails and I’m gonna tell them if they sign up in October, I’m gonna give them 20% off.
[01:05:05] Naeem: By the way, that’s my biggest turn off. Mm-hmm. if someone gives me a time deadline. Yeah. For I know and I know for a fact that’s made up. Yeah. I’m off the phone. Yeah. That email is gonna
[01:05:14] Aliya: delete. Hate that. Yeah. It’s funny
[01:05:16] Naeem: cuz we use that. It works. Yeah. But if someone uses that on me, I’m like you. No. Oh, deadline.
[01:05:23] Naeem: Oh, you know where the deadline is now gone by. Sorry. Sales people. Some of you are [01:05:30] nice. Um, okay, I’m switching gears again. I wanna talk to you about time management and time management from a perspective. So you, we did the intro, we talked about you. Coaching CEOs, celebrities, these hot shots. Right. What have you seen about them before they even come to you?
[01:05:48] Naeem: So they obviously reach a certain level in their career. They’re already high up on the corporate ladder, or if their celebrities have done well in media or whatever else it is. So they are masters of their craft in some way, shape, or form [01:06:00] before they come to you for even more improvement or filling in the gaps.
TRAITS OF SUCCESSFUL PEOPLE
[01:06:04] Naeem: What were the traits, or what pattern do you see in the traits of their time management? Because, and I ask this again selfishly, because I feel like some people have 26 hours a day and that could be obviously portrayed differently on social media and through accomplishments. But I feel like, what do I have the same time as these guys?
[01:06:21] Naeem: Cuz the amount of work these guys are doing. So it must be something to do with their time management. So before they come to you, what patterns do you see that are [01:06:30] working in their favor in terms of time management? And maybe that’s related to energy management too, but Yeah, what would you find?
[01:06:37] Aliya: So, yeah, a lot of people who are, you know, Like literally bosses in their lives.
[01:06:43] Aliya: Like they’ve got everything pretty much structured A to Z right from block to block to block half an hour block, half an hour block throughout the day. Um, what I work with a lot of these people on really is about their wellbeing and their stress. [01:07:00] So yes, they’re doing like 50,000 things a day. The super high achievers are doing amazing things, but they’re never fully present.
[01:07:07] Aliya: Their, their mind is everywhere jumping a hundred miles an hour. They’re not having the time for their relationships or for their self care and, and things like that. So, We look at when it comes to time management, and of course everyone is different, but this is one of the things that we’ll look at and we’ll be like, well, how much time are you actually giving to yourself right now?
[01:07:29] Aliya: How much [01:07:30] time are you actually giving? Because what happens is when people are super busy, like what happens is them as a person, they fall right to the bottom of the list. And so that’s, well, that’s essentially why they’ve come to me. You know, a lot of them are successful. They know how to be successful in what they’re doing, but they’re.
[01:07:47] Aliya: I don’t feel good or I’m on the verge of burnout right now. So for them, we’re looking at time management in a way, well, what can we take out? Um, when can you have time in your [01:08:00] day where you’re pouring into your own cup? And that’s like, I get everyone I work with to have a morning routine. Everyone who starts to work with me, we create a morning routine together.
[01:08:10] Aliya: They need at least 15, 20 minutes in the morning for themselves. Not just getting up, running out the door, you know, and emails in their bed, like that’s gonna frazzle their brain. So carving out time, whether it’s like, um, lunch break or in the evening or the weekends to have more of a, of a balance for themselves.
[01:08:29] Naeem: Can [01:08:30] I, I don’t wanna use the word challenge, but jam with you on that. So you mentioned that when someone, let’s say, work on their craft and their. Some people are going towards burnout in the sense that they value themselves last and they lose health relationships and stuff like that. But on the other hand, they’re really successful at what they do.
[01:08:54] Naeem: Yeah, and they have breakthroughs at work all the time. So then is the opposite also [01:09:00] true, where if you do look after yourself, you put yourself higher on the list, you prioritize your own health mental space that you lose your edge with, with work in the sense that you’re not as innovative anymore because you’re a lot more relaxed and you’re more calm and you’re not on high stress.
[01:09:17] Naeem: Or maybe you’re not as aggressive in pursuing the next round because you’re not looking to fulfill your life with work. You have a very fulfilled life. is that, I don’t know why I’m asking this, because that’s how [01:09:30] I, okay. That’s how I, I feel. Yeah. That’s how I feel sometimes. Right. Like I feel like I need to burn myself to the ground to achieve the level of success.
[01:09:37] Naeem: Cuz that’s what I’ve seen myself, for example, doing in football. When I play football three times a week, I give it 160%. Um, and I burn myself out and I, it hurts afterwards. Hurts for days afterwards. But I enjoy it and I like being the, the best playmaker on that pitch. Very competitive that way. But I’ve played games where I play at [01:10:00] 90% and I don’t like it.
[01:10:02] Naeem: Yeah. But I feel relaxed, but I don’t like the not winning parts. How do you reconcile that? How do you reconcile working on yourself? Being more calm. Having a nicer, colorful life, which I do right now. But not being able to innovate as hard or, you know, just break through the barriers to success in that way.
[01:10:23] Aliya: Well, I guess it doesn’t have to be so black and white and, um, it, yeah, it’s a hundred percent, you know, get what you’re [01:10:30] saying completely. Is that like a lot of the driving force of, of what gets people to where they are, especially like people who are successful, whether it’s like low self-esteem, for example, you know, let’s look at it.
[01:10:41] Aliya: If we kind of dissect, dissect it a bit more, people who are very high, you know, very high achieving. A lot of the time it does come from a place, not everyone, it comes from a place of like, I’m not good enough. I need to do harder. What I’m doing is not good enough. And constantly feeling like they need to do more and prove more to themselves.
[01:10:58] Aliya: Um, so, and [01:11:00] that’s a, that’s what makes them keep going. Um, but on the other hand, I mean, again, I think with the work that I. . It’s really also a big part of it is like, how do you feel ? It really is about that. So yes, you can be achieving 1,001 things, but if you are not feeling good, if you are exhausted and you are burnt out and you’re tired and fed up every day, then really what is the good in all the, the incredible things that you’re doing?
[01:11:26] Aliya: I mean, if you want to continue with that, great. You know, if you don’t wanna lose that [01:11:30] flare, you don’t wanna kind. You know, mess with it, great. But these are people who have recognized that they don’t wanna continue this way. So it’s about just making small changes. I never say to people do like a complete 180, you know, on your, or in your life.
[01:11:44] Aliya: But it can be, you know, for example, in the morning, having that time. But then when you’re at work, still going, you know, full force when you’re in that meeting, giving it your all. But then for example, coming out, even just giving yourself five minutes in between a meeting just to kind of calm, you know, your brain, resent to [01:12:00] yourself, refocus, and then go do the next thing.
[01:12:02] Aliya: Giving yourself these small little pockets in between just to kind of look after your wellbeing. But then again, like I said, you then bring your A game, uh, into the next meeting.
[01:12:12] Naeem: It’s also all the hustle porn that’s out there that’s kind of normalizing for you to burn out. Yeah. Or making it the only way.
[01:12:20] Naeem: And even the stories of like these tech giants, right? Like messed up lives. There’s some really messed up lives of these people that the stories come out later. And the discussion, [01:12:30] Lena and I have this discussion a lot, um, because you mentioned earlier like now you choose to do the work that you’re doing.
[01:12:36] Naeem: No one’s telling you, no one’s managing you, no one’s checking in on you. You choose the level of burnout that you’re gonna put yourself through. Yeah. And I. Have in my corporate life really, really worked hard, and I’m using this time in the business to really adjust my energy level. So if I’m gonna take a nap at two, 2:00 PM I will take a nap.
[01:12:56] Naeem: Yeah. Um, if I wanna start the day off by going for an [01:13:00] hour walk, I will do that because no one’s waiting for me. I, I don’t take meetings in the morning. Basically, that’s my rule. I don’t take a meeting before 12, um, 11 sometimes if it’s, but 11 is the earliest out. So if I wake up at six, I have five hours to do deep work, to do work on myself or anything like that.
[01:13:17] Naeem: But at the same time that I’ve instituted these practices, which is having an hour to myself in the day, so 20 minutes yoga, 20 minutes meditate, 20 minutes journal, and I find my [01:13:30] energy is so much calmer. Yeah. But at the same time, my desire. Which is a root of all suffering. My desire to do great innovative breakthrough hustle, million dollars by the end of this year has really calmed down.
[01:13:44] Naeem: And that can also affect business results, especially if I’ve made promises to myself to grow the business by X percent. Yeah, so Alina and I try to reconcile that all the time and mm-hmm. , it’s also about the value of each second you put as a business owner, right? Your, [01:14:00] your time is so highly leveraged.
[01:14:01] Naeem: Each decision that you make each second that you put on it can be worth two or three years worth of work by saying a simple yes or no. But I, what I’m trying to reconcile and trying to work out and try to be the case study for, is that you can be relaxed and calm and. Still do well. Cause I don’t have enough stories like that.
[01:14:18] Naeem: Mm. We don’t hear enough stories of people who are well balanced Yeah. And still doing innovative things. Yeah. Or doing or growing like crazy. Yeah. Um, I guess, I guess also taking [01:14:30] a 20 year, 30 year timeframe and seeing all the health problems develop in people as they, as they go through this too.
[01:14:37] Aliya: Yeah. I, I guess people’s values have changed more now as well.
[01:14:42] Aliya: Um, but of course, I mean, I, I talk to friends about this as well. I do talk to friends. I think I’ve seen it more with my male entrepreneur friends that they, they’re all about the hustle and burnout. They are fully in that and they’ve, Thrive off of it as well. Um, and they’re not gonna change . Yeah. [01:15:00] Um,
[01:15:00] Naeem: but that’s what we’re up against.
[01:15:02] Naeem: Right. Exactly. I feel like that’s what I’m up against.
[01:15:03] Aliya: Yeah. But then I look at them and, and I obviously talk to ’em about it as well, and you can see like how on edge they are and how stressed they are. Right. And um, and again, they’re dealing with. Big amounts of money and you know, running, throwing, being thrown around.
[01:15:18] Aliya: And, but that’s what gives them the edge. So for them it’s like they thrive off of that. So it’s almost like, and I asked one friend about this as well, and I said, um, but what about like your, your wellbeing [01:15:30] and, and feeling good? And he was like, well, it just isn’t a priority for me. For me it’s about like, I have set goals for the next few years and that’s the only thing that I care about.
[01:15:40] Aliya: That’s all I want to, to, to get to. That can, can be like my happiness and wellbeing doesn’t matter right now. Does that hurt you
[01:15:47] Naeem: to hear that? Yeah.
[01:15:49] Aliya: Especially through your friends and sort friends of four. We support each other through the madness. Right? , . Um, and it’s a conscious decision. [01:16:00] Least. Yeah, it’s a conscious decision.
[01:16:01] Aliya: Right. Um, but. But that’s, that’s their, their values. And it’s like, okay. Whereas if you are someone who’s like, it might take a little bit longer, but I’m on my way. But for me, it’s important to have that wellbeing. I’m, I’m all about the slow and steady, you know, like it’s a Tor choice, right? Is it tos? Yeah, like tos and the hair.
[01:16:19] Aliya: And you know, I watch a lot of videos around this as well, and I think we’re so like, ingrained to expect like overnight success and results to come really quickly. And then if we don’t, we’re like, [01:16:30] something’s wrong, but like, good things take time. And I think we just gotta have that patience to know that I keep doing it.
[01:16:36] Aliya: Um, and this is a lifestyle. I remember when I started. doing, um, doing my own thing. And I wouldn’t even have lunch. Like I would just work through. Yeah. Or I just wouldn’t be too busy for lunch. And I can’t remember, was it my mentor, my coach and you know, she said, well, you chose to do this. You’ve gotta create a sustainable lifestyle for yourself.
[01:16:56] Aliya: And I was like, ah, that’s true. I should just take some time off [01:17:00] to eat lunch. You know? Um, and I did then. So even now, it’s very much living with that kind of ethos of, well, this is a life that I’m creating. I want it to be sustainable. Um, some people wanna go all in and work crazy amounts of hours, but then when you are with them, they’re super, like, they’re not focused, they’re not there.
[01:17:16] Aliya: They’re heads all over the place. And, and for my line of work, Again, it’s different for what you do. For me, I need to be super present. Like with, I’m, I’m a coach, so I can’t be sitting in a session and my head is like thinking about, I’ve [01:17:30] gotta do this, I have to do that. So my, I manage my energy throughout the day.
[01:17:33] Aliya: Like, I can’t be sluggish, I can’t be tired, I can’t be frantic. I need to be fully calm and present because I know that’s when I can fully give to, to my clients. So I think that’s where it’s become a conscious decision, like, as
[01:17:43] Naeem: well. Yeah, no, thank you for confirming that, that the long game, it’s, it’s worth it to do it for the long game because now I’m gonna take my 2:00 PM naps even more.
[01:17:55] Aliya: I’m not gonna let that go. Could me as like a five, 4:00 PM nap because I, yeah. For like 20 [01:18:00] minutes. I live 20 minute.
[01:18:01] Naeem: I, yeah, I really nice. 20 minutes is my ideal, but uh, I’m trying to figure out the optimum time by How much time does it take from the time I lie down on the couch, for my eyes to close?
[01:18:11] Naeem: Yeah. So I usually set a 30 minute timer. I figure give it 10, 10 minutes. If I do end up saving 40 minutes in the afternoon, I’m still sluggish. Yeah. So bad. So bad. But it’s so bad. Mm-hmm. so bad. But it’s so lovely. All the dreams I have in my afternoon naps. You need to write them down. I do, I do write down my dreams.
[01:18:27] Naeem: I do. I write my like night [01:18:30] dreams in my, in my morning journal time. Wow. Some crazy ones. This morning I had to write about. Wow. Which so strange. Yeah, I do. Um, I do some reiki with, uh, with my energy healer and she recommended that I look into my dreams cuz they’re very vivid and you know, I mean, I can read too much into these things.
[01:18:48] Naeem: It’s fun. It at least fun for me five years down the line to read back. See, I was
[01:18:53] Aliya: writing. Yeah. It’s so funny you say that because I never remember my dreams really. Last night I had a really vivid [01:19:00] dream and I actually woke up and looked up on events. It was really interesting. Yeah, good, good vibes or bad vibes.
[01:19:06] Aliya: I was like, interesting. You, I think hopefully good. I mean, I was like, interesting. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
[01:19:10] Naeem: yeah. So it’s fun stuff. My mom used to have a book, um, of dream interpretations. Oh wow. So we’ve, I’ve been like tuned to like read into these things before. Um, okay. I wanna talk about despair. Okay. Has there, I mean, you have to get a little vulnerable.
[01:19:28] Naeem: This is who are a coach and you’re [01:19:30] helping people through your life. Um, I’m telling you from personal experience and of the 15 others that have been on this podcast, we’ve all had a moment where, or moments recurring that we wanted to just shut this down. Yeah, shut the business down, let it go. It was nice while it lasted.
[01:19:49] Naeem: Don’t think it’s the thing that I wanna do. It’s giving me too much of a headache and a stress and a burnout. I’ve done the math for the opportunity. It’s not that great. Something else. [01:20:00] Beck ends. Do you, have you ever gotten to that point yet? And the answer can be no to, that’s fine. Mm-hmm. . Um, but have you been to the point where you just wanna walk away from this coaching for yourself?
[01:20:12] Aliya: Yeah, there have been a couple of times, um, I’ll share one in a bit, but I think, you know, there’s definitely been times where it’s like, God, it would just be easier to have a nine to five. God, it would just be easier to be able to like walk out the office and shut my brain off. Check out. Yeah, yeah.
[01:20:29] Aliya: Instead of [01:20:30] like constantly beyond, constantly be thinking and that, so there’s definitely been times, um, the pandemic was difficult, the beginning of the pandemic. Um, and one of the reasons was because for me it was more like logistics at the time because a lot of my clients was in Dubai, but most of my clients at the time, cuz I was living in Abu Dhabi before were in Abu Dhabi.
[01:20:55] Aliya: I’d only recently moved to Dubai, so I was actually commuting at that time. Like on, you [01:21:00] know, online calls weren’t a thing then. So grateful for the pandemic now . But like, I used to go and, and frequently a few times a week go and see my clients in Abu Dhabi. Um, and so what happened was the pandemic hit and then a few of them, like, it was just kind of slowly transition.
[01:21:16] Aliya: Let’s just pause this for now. Let’s just, cause we can’t do the face to face thing. A few of my clients say people lost their jobs. So I lost clients here who lost their jobs. Um, people were then at home, so they were like, well, we’re not going to the office. I don’t really need the coaching [01:21:30] to help me in the office and social skills and speaking.
[01:21:33] Aliya: So slowly everything just kind of started to go down and I was like, oh my God. And I got to a point where I was like, I dunno what to do. And I remember just being so like, I, I dunno what to do. Um, but I, I, I remember though at that time being like, I just knew this was a pivotal moment for me. I, I had that, I was like, sometimes, cuz I’ve, I, I think I’ve been through enough experiences in life to know that sometimes when things just fall apart it’s because [01:22:00] it’s a time where you need to like, like pivot and, and just try something different.
[01:22:05] Aliya: So I did get really to talk, but for me, like there’s, there’s no other thing that I want to do. Like I can’t even see myself. It’s not even an option to just go and go back to the nine to five or cuz it’s like, become me now. So it was really a figure, a case of, okay, let’s figure this out. And that’s what I ended up doing.
[01:22:23] Aliya: But a hundred percent there’s been times. Yeah, yeah. It’s hard and I’ve cried and I’m like, I’m not good enough for this. And you make it about you. [01:22:30] Yeah. Because the thing is like, the danger of this is that you make the business you. Yep. So I’ve learnt now to detach, but initially, and I think for every entrepreneur goes, every entrepreneur experiences this.
[01:22:41] Aliya: So it’s like when the business is going well, you feel good about yourself. Hey, I like myself. I have, you know, I feel good about myself. Um, but then when it’s not going well, you have a really bad opinion of yourself. Like, I’m nothing. I’m really bad at this. You, I’m terrible. All these things. And it goes up and down your self worth according to how [01:23:00] the business is going.
[01:23:00] Aliya: And that is just so dangerous. Like it really, really is. Um, so I learned then how to make that detachment. It’s like, no, the business is there and this is me as Alia, like the very two separate. Tell me about
[01:23:12] Naeem: that detachment cuz like, we’re totally there we’re, our self worth is directly proportional to my balance sheet or to my profit and loss statement.
[01:23:20] Naeem: Um, how, how are you doing that? Uh, for yourself and attaching, I’ve done a lot of
[01:23:25] Aliya: healing work. Okay. And therapy and like, coaching around these things. Mm-hmm. . So I think [01:23:30] that was like huge for me. Um, going, digging in really deep and understanding, um, a lot about like, yeah, my self worth, my self love and like, why I’m doing this and, and, and the attachment.
[01:23:44] Aliya: So I think it’s from that really from the healing and coaching work that I did, I was able to, to distinguish myself and have, cuz it actually became my identity at one point, it was so merged that I was like, me, the coach, and I was like, oh, this is all kind of [01:24:00] one into one. So learn then how to be more of me, um, again, through the inner work and then make that separate.
[01:24:08] Naeem: Yeah. We, we, we go through those phases sometimes. For example, I have a few fellow agency owner, friends, not friends, but acquaintances that are meeting up on Sunday and, you know, being very, um, Open about this business isn’t doing the best it can be. And I hate going to these things now, or I, I, I feel [01:24:30] soory because there’s so much self-flagellation happening in my mind.
[01:24:34] Naeem: Mm. Right. Because the business is not doing well, because I’m not doing well because I did this something. And luckily we are in a partnership when one of us is going through these spirals, the other person’s like, look at the amount of works we’ve done, look at the external factors, look at the things that are not on our control.
[01:24:49] Naeem: And luckily neither of us go into the same SU together. Yeah. But when we do , oh boy. Some there are, I can, I can count them on one hand in the [01:25:00] last three years that we’ve gone into the south together. Yeah. Those are tough when we’re both just lying on the bed and being like, I wanna shut this down. This is, this is not worth it.
[01:25:09] Naeem: Yeah. It’s not what I signed up for. Um, next day you’re in love with it again. Yeah. You know, because it goes back to the reasons why you started. It goes back to. For us, there were three things. Uh, one was the lifestyle, which includes who you spend your time with, how you spend your time, how many apps you take in the afternoon.
[01:25:29] Naeem: Uh, the [01:25:30] second was money, not the first, not the last. Second reason we started this was to make decent, uh, living with, with decent money. And the third one was as a creative output or our creative expression into the world. This business is play for me. It’s what can I do with a blank piece of paper? I’ve been giving this blank piece of paper.
[01:25:48] Naeem: What can I draw on it? And that’s, uh, when two or three of these two or uh, two out three of these boxes are ticked off, I’m feeling good. When two of them are not ticked off, then [01:26:00] like for example, right now, there’s less play in the business, less creativity, and there’s less money. But lifestyle is there. I still have control of that.
[01:26:08] Naeem: So I start. Off a bit until something, so I know what to inject in. Either I need more clients to fill in the money thing, then I have two out of three things. Or I have the creativity going back in where we’re coming up with a new service or a new package, or a new audience or a new, uh, target market for our services, et cetera.
[01:26:24] Naeem: Actually, we are working on that, so, but it’s not fully ready yet. Mm-hmm. . [01:26:30] Um, okay. Let’s despair. I wanted to ask you also in terms of, you, you do a lot of visioning with your clients, I’m guessing, right. Vision boarding and stuff like that. But for yourself when you first started, uh, versus today, if I were to compare your two vision boards from four years ago to today, what would you tell me are the biggest differences in how, how you’re visioning or how you’re thinking about vision?
[01:26:55] Aliya: Um, is this from the start, you
[01:26:56] Naeem: mean? Yeah, from the start to today. Like if you were to make [01:27:00] a vision board at the start of your journey and one today Yeah. What differences would you see in both of them? Yeah. Well
[01:27:07] Aliya: and what would you see the same? Okay. Um, it’s funny cuz I, okay. There’s the beginning one, which can think of, but then there’s also the middle one.
[01:27:15] Aliya: Okay. Which is actually kind of different now to like where I am as well. So I think that’s, that was interesting. Um, so yeah, I think really initially it was, um, I mean I just remember it sounds so cheesy saying the story, but like I was, um, I was on the [01:27:30] central line going to work in London and I was reading the Secret
[01:27:34] Aliya: I probably like such a cliche, ,
[01:27:37] Naeem: what we’ve all read it .
[01:27:40] Aliya: Um, and he like, wow. And then, no, but reading that then I. I, I remember at that moment just reading and, and picturing myself, like speaking in front of people and, and running workshops. And for me that was such a distant thought, like that’s not something that was in my kind of like space or something I could ever see myself doing.
[01:27:59] Aliya: It was [01:28:00] just this like distant thought, like, wow, imagine I could do that one day. Yeah. Um, So something like, you know, that is even just getting started, I remember even just putting a microphone like as a podcast on them being like, wow, imagine having my own podcast one day. Um, so even just as simple as like literally speaking in front of people was my initial one.
[01:28:21] Aliya: I then went through like a, a phase in between where I wanted to have the whole like, you know, billions of followers [01:28:30] and this much money and, you know, this amount of, you know, not fame, but like just meeting impacting millions of people around the world and being a big name. And I kind of went through that phase and then I had to kind of go through them and was like, is that really what I want?
[01:28:45] Aliya: And I realized actually no, because with that comes a lot as well with being someone that’s so out there that’s so known that also has its kind of other things that yeah. Um, that actually isn’t aligned with me. Um, and so now I’ve kind, so, so I went [01:29:00] through all of that and then, And then I went through, I mean my life was kind of out of, out of balance at that point.
[01:29:05] Aliya: And then I put in things like spending more time with people I love and friends and being able to go and work from abroad and like putting those things on my vision board. And then slowly I realized and I was like, oh, slowly I’ve kind of made those things happen. Um, and so now it’s funny cuz now it’s kind of more like grounding if that, if that makes sense.
[01:29:25] Aliya: So the things are happening and I definitely have things on my vision board that I feel like [01:29:30] I’m, yeah, moving into the direction towards. But it kind of went through a weird kind of funk in the middle and I was like, that’s not aligned with me.
[01:29:37] Naeem: So lack of clarity or
[01:29:38] Aliya: just maybe it was like, Almost what I thought I should be trying to achieve.
[01:29:46] Aliya: So Tony
[01:29:46] Naeem: Robbins told you to do . I did go to
[01:29:50] Aliya: workshops, so maybe, you know, but like, it’s like, do I really want millions of followers? Do I really need to make this amount of money? Um, and maybe great, but like, [01:30:00] again, those things come with other, you know, factors. Other, for example, um, like do I wanna be in the spotlight that much?
[01:30:06] Aliya: To be really honest, no, I don’t. I actually don’t. Um, don’t wanna have that amount of follows and attention. No, I don’t. Mm-hmm. . So like, I kind of, I, I, at some point I kind of went down the road of what I thought that I should be on track to do, because again, like there’s this picture of success that’s painted, um, like, you should make this amount of money and you should be this and this kind of brand.
[01:30:28] Aliya: And I’ve like defined my own [01:30:30] version, uh, like definition of success. Yeah. That’s what I like, am working on and with now. So yeah, I think that’s how it’s kind of changed.
[01:30:40] Naeem: That’s awesome. Can I recommend an article that you might find interesting to read? Yeah, please. Yeah. It’s called A thousand True Fans, I think written by Kevin Kelly, if I’m getting that right.
[01:30:49] Naeem: But I’ll, I’ll double check that. Yeah. But I think it’s a, it’s really great read when you’re, especially when you’re considering like, how many people do I need to impact? Mm. Um, I won’t give more details. I think it’s a fun, [01:31:00] fun read. There’s two versions. There’s one pre-internet, one post whole social media thing as well.
[01:31:05] Naeem: A thousand True Fans. I’ll send it to you. Yeah, please do. Now I want your recommendation. So books, I haven’t, um, yeah, I’m looking for recommendations for myself. What do you think has impacted, well, you obviously don’t know me much, so what has impacted you the most? Yeah. Like what, what kind of books come to mind?
BOOKS
[01:31:25] Naeem: Um, or what books do you recommend your clients to read if they haven’t read already? [01:31:30] Yeah.
[01:31:31] Aliya: Um, the first couple of books I read when I got started was, um, have you heard of Daniel Priestley? What’s the name of the book? So Daniel, um, key person of Influence, so kpi. So he goes to like the five P’s of running a business and having a personal brand.
[01:31:47] Aliya: Okay. And then he also has this other book called Oversubscribed, and that’s really good. It’s literally about, yeah, how to have clients basically lining, um, up at your door and, and being oversubscribed. So those are the two [01:32:00] books, um, that really impacted me. Um, and I loved, uh, again, at the beginning as well, like Simon Sinex.
[01:32:07] Aliya: What’s your why? Because, um, start with why. What’s your why? I was confused. That was why. Yeah, because that for me, I always bring that into my sessions. Like even now, after four years, I’m always asking my clients, why, why do you want to do that? Why? Um, because when you have that, why, it’s what keeps you going and what keeps you moving.
[01:32:27] Aliya: And if you haven’t got a clear why, you probably won’t be very motivated to [01:32:30] do something. So that was another really like key book for me. Um, my journey.
[01:32:35] Naeem: Any, any other that come to mind, let’s say from a more of a, I wouldn’t say woo woo, but I’m personally looking for something a bit more out there. Um, not, not, not as woo woo as a secret, but something around that genre too.
[01:32:52] Aliya: Um, I would say books on even, um, money mindset then as well. Um,
[01:32:59] Naeem: like your [01:33:00] relationship with money and
[01:33:00] Aliya: Yeah. Yeah. There’s even workbooks. So, um, what’s her name? She’s called, um, uh, Catherine Zin. Thinks her name Katherine with a C or K? K Yeah, that’s her. Cause I knew the book and she has books around money mindset and, um, manifestation and kind of digging into those areas.
[01:33:23] Aliya: So that would be, I think, really great in terms of the more like woo space. Um,
[01:33:27] Naeem: yeah. Okay. Cool. I like, I like to [01:33:30] have a balance of all of these cuz I can go into the deep end of either or. Um, I just, I don’t know why I do this to myself, but it’s fun. Yeah. Um, can I ask you, you’re a coach, you’ve talked about working with other coaches, you’ve talked about coaching other people, you’ve talked about mentors, you’ve talked about friends that you can call at 2:00 AM actually, you don’t call anyone at 2:00 AM but do call them often to run them by things.
LESSONS
[01:33:54] Naeem: But does any lesson come to mind that no one could have taught you but you had to learn it for. Through [01:34:00] experience, um, and life itself teaching you a lesson mm-hmm. without someone else having to save you at the time. Does anything come to mind?
[01:34:11] Aliya: Oh, loads. Like, which one? Um, I think, um, I mean like, if, if we’re talking about like business for example, I mean mm-hmm.
[01:34:22] Aliya: like, it is, it is really tough. I know it sounds so simple, but I think enough people aren’t prepared for that, that it is a [01:34:30] tough journey and there are lots of ups and downs because I see it so much where people, it’s just like, I’m not good enough for this. I can’t do this. Or things haven’t worked out, I shouldn’t continue.
[01:34:40] Aliya: But just having a really, you just have to be like your own best friend and cheerleader. Um, Very much so. So I feel like alongside all the externals, right, and when I say externals, I mean like your goals and your business and working and, and all of that. The external stuff that you do outwardly, [01:35:00] you need to alongside that, constantly be keeping up internally.
[01:35:04] Aliya: Um, so you need to be like checking when you need to see like, am I aligned with what I want right now? Because if you could be like, oh, I wanna, you know, make this amount of money or I wanna be speaking at this, but if everything internally is like self-sabotaging you mm-hmm. that you’re gonna be constantly.
[01:35:20] Aliya: Well, yeah, self-sabotaging. You’re gonna be pushing away these opportunities subconsciously without even realizing or saying no, or pushing things away. So you’ve gotta constantly, [01:35:30] because like each different chapter of your life, like there’s so much growth and you’ve gotta like, be aware of the, the growth that’s happening within, and not shy away from that.
[01:35:39] Aliya: Not shy away from like, checking in with yourself, not shy away from like the ugly emotions, not shy away from like really looking at, at life and, and, and delving into that. So I think. Just trusting that life comes in seasons. I actually did a post about this yesterday. I think there’s seasons in life.
[01:35:57] Aliya: It’s not always like linear where it’s like, okay, [01:36:00] everything is great. I’m positive, I’m happy. No, there’s sometimes, and I was going through this recently where I’ve just felt kind of like lost, like a bit lost and a bit disconnected externally. Everything has been happening the same, but internally I’ve just been like, I dunno.
[01:36:16] Aliya: But I embrace the fact that I’m in that season. Yeah. And so understanding that life has seasons and a lot of time, this kind of like lost period is getting you ready for the next period, which is probably a bit more [01:36:30] fast moving and And you’ll get that clarity. Yeah. But it’s not just gonna come to you.
[01:36:33] Aliya: You’ve got to kind. Become aware and reflect and being like, what’s going on for me right now? So I think if you start to have that patience with yourself of like, it’s not always gonna be so clear cut, but checking in with yourself, where am I? Like internally? Yeah. What, how do I need to grow and change for me to make those things happen.
[01:36:51] Aliya: It’s not just about continuing to do the same things, right. As Einstein says over and over again having the same results, but being like, what do I need to change internally to get [01:37:00] myself to get to where I want to go
[01:37:01] Naeem: to? Yeah. I think I was on that similar path, uh, few weeks, months, um, leading up to this.
[01:37:10] Naeem: The word I was using to lean was like, I feel turbulent inside. Like I might seem calm on the outside, but the waters are turbulent inside. Mm-hmm. . And uh, it’s funny cuz we were talking about that dream, that the dream, when I looked it up this morning, it said, you will pass through the turbulence. I’m like, yes, I’ve been waiting for months Yeah.
[01:37:29] Naeem: To [01:37:30] pass this and um, Yeah, it’s, uh, no one prepares you for people, tell you how tough it’s gonna be, but no one prepares you for how tough mentally it is gonna be and how on you have to be and how you really can turn it off. Especially if you’re married to someone you’re doing business with and we never stop talking about it.
[01:37:51] Naeem: Mm-hmm. And we don’t find, actually no, we’re getting, we’re getting better at it. Uh, actually we go through phases of it where we like our last word before going to [01:38:00] bed, unless I make a rule like 9:00 PM we don’t talk business anymore, but there’s months in between where I want to. Yeah. And there’s months in there where I Please do not, sometimes the timeline moves up to 8:00 PM Please do not talk to me about business after 8:00 PM Yeah.
[01:38:15] Naeem: But she said you take naps in the afternoon. I was, I can’t talk to your , like, okay, fine, we can talk, we can talk till nine 30, till eight 15 till nine 30. But you know, you make up your own rules as you go. But yeah, you’re never, never really prepared for how tough it’s gonna be. I remember meeting an [01:38:30] entrepreneur.
[01:38:31] Naeem: Five, six years ago, so away before I started this. And I was just bitching and moaning as, as corporate employees do, about how hard it is to start a business. Right? Cause you always have excuse. I had massive excuse I, and I was like, oh, you know, to buy all these licenses and this and that. Uh, you know, it’s like, you know, it’s not like the states where you can set up a shop in your garage and like, you know, do whatever you want and like get, get off the ground.
[01:38:56] Naeem: He just looks at me, said, you know, it’s actually good. People are like, [01:39:00] you are not allowed to do business. And he’s very serious and we were acquaintances. We’re not friends. Yeah. He’s being very honest. He’s like, cuz it takes a lot Yeah. To be ready and willing to take on these risks. When you’re coming to a country like this and starting your own business, it’s good that a lot of you are being weeded out.
[01:39:16] Naeem: Wow. Because they’re doing your, you a favor. Yeah. Otherwise you get into it not knowing what you’re getting into. Yeah. Which is in other countries, if it’s easier to get in business doesn’t mean everyone can do business. Well yeah. So, I’m, I’m glad that [01:39:30] he, he told me earlier on, um, we have limited amount of time left.
IMPOSTER SYNDROME
[01:39:35] Naeem: I do wanna start wrapping up. I have one question, one more question for you that we can cover here, and then a rapid fire after that, um, if you’re up for that. Um, but yeah, I wanna talk about, I think you did a podcast episode on this too, the feeling of falling behind. Mm. And the imposter syndrome. It is completely unchecked now with social media.
[01:39:59] Naeem: Mm. [01:40:00] Um, and no matter how many I’ve thought about this a lot. Yeah. Here’s one way I think about it, and tell me what you think about this. I actually like it when people get imposter syndrome, so. because that is their gut telling them that they should stop doing the thing that they’re doing because you’re probably not good at it.
[01:40:18] Naeem: And that’s a very mean thing to say, and it’s a very aggressive thing to say, but I find some truth in that because some, some truths are uncomfortable. But I found for myself, at least when I get imposter syndrome about a [01:40:30] certain thing, like playing the guitar, um, oh, this guy plays this so much better than I do.
[01:40:36] Naeem: Or I go ahead and like, I can’t, I’ve been playing for so long and I can’t do this. Like, okay, maybe you should either practice shit or get off the pot, like stop doing it. Your imposter syndrome is telling you go focus on something else. Um, and that’s mean, that’s a mean thing to say. And I’ve told my friends, and I’ve lost some friends because of this, because usually the response to imposter syndrome is like, no, don’t compare yourself to others.[01:41:00]
[01:41:00] Naeem: But imposter syndrome is coming from your gut somewhere in your gut. What if it’s partially true?
[01:41:07] Aliya: I mean, I would kind of challenge that because. Is this? I’m hoping for that. Yeah, I mean, you said that, um, usually when it comes to imposter syndrome, people aren’t actually good at that. Correct me if I’m wrong.
[01:41:17] Aliya: They’re not good at something and
[01:41:18] Naeem: they’re feeling like
[01:41:19] Aliya: an imposter, but they’re just not good. But I mean, I work with a lot of, um, clients who have imposter syndrome, and this is something we work through literally a session last night. Um, she works [01:41:30] in ai, um, doing incredible things, but she like, so she’s quite new in her career.
[01:41:37] Aliya: And so, for example, and she’s, she’s doing very well, but she doesn’t believe that she is. And obviously we delved into the reasons why and all that. But then I asked her to give feedback. Tell me what, what’s the feedback that you’ve been given? And actually it’s been amazing feedback from everyone, like, she’s doing really well, but imposter syndrome is about you.
[01:41:58] Aliya: And by the way, imposter [01:42:00] syndrome is actually more prevalent in high. So it’s more of a high achiever thing where people are doing very well. They almost have this kind of chip on the shoulder where they feel like someone’s gonna recognize that they shouldn’t be there. And the feeling that I’m not good enough, I shouldn’t be, how did I get here?
[01:42:16] Aliya: This is, this is the, this is what imposter syndrome is about. So it’s not nec I think a lot of them are like doing brilliantly, they’re f what they do, but they’re just failing to recognize that themselves and it’s about [01:42:30] confidence and self-esteem. Yeah. So, um, so yeah, so it’s starting to, to have those conversations and delve into recognizing why are there, I mean, I had massive imposter syndrome.
[01:42:40] Aliya: I think I probably still get it at times. I mean, even coming to the uae, um, and starting from scratch, I didn’t have a network here, built my network, sort of dreaming with my, working with my dream clients, you know, building my brand. And I would constantly ask myself like, how did this happen? Like, charging what I do all these things.
[01:42:58] Aliya: I was like, [01:43:00] I just, I can’t say someone
[01:43:02] Naeem: pe me to talk.
[01:43:04] Aliya: What? Honestly, I would just go through this all the time. I was like, I don’t, yeah. I don’t understand like how it’s happened or its in an accident or, and I didn’t recognize, I just thought it was like a fluke or like I got lucky and then I had to constantly, I still, I still do at times, have to look back at how hard I worked.
[01:43:23] Aliya: Yeah. And how I would do things that no one would want to do. Like seriously, I would sit. I would sit there DMing [01:43:30] people, like 200 people a day on Instagram until Instagram stopped me from DMing people, . I blog my messages like I, like I did things that no one would want to do. Yeah. That’s like what enabled me then to, to get to like the sort of the place.
[01:43:46] Aliya: Right. And I had to, but I didn’t recognize it for a long time. I was like, how I’m a fraud. I’m this, I’m, you know, people are better than me at what I do, and yet I’m, you know, here and working with these people and doing these things. How are people just wanting to work with me? I don’t understand, you [01:44:00] know?
[01:44:00] Aliya: Mm-hmm. . So, um, I’d like to think I’m not terrible at what I do. Let’s , let’s hope not. But yeah, so I think, um, it’s something you need to sort of work on actively, I think.
[01:44:10] Naeem: Yeah. The last time that I, I tried to work, um, that really helped. So I was doing C B T and I was going through my usual spiel of these kind of things, imposter syndrome and things not going well, and she, she asked me that one question, which.
[01:44:25] Naeem: It’s kind of bad for her business cuz she asked like one question that was a hundred therapy sessions in one [01:44:30] and she said, do you have any proof of that? So when I was feeling these things about myself not being good enough and not being at the level of success that I need to be for my age, she just asked that one question.
[01:44:42] Naeem: Do you have proof of that? Yeah. And I’ve, uh, trained Alina to ask me that question every, every time that I’m going through, uh, a bit of a cell And she has it on cue. Yeah. I tell her things and she’s, she just looks at me and she said, do you have any proof of that? Yeah. And if I can’t find proof, it just [01:45:00] automatically turns me back on, like the imposter zone gets killed almost immediately.
[01:45:03] Naeem: The trouble I have is when I do have proof . Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But that is a good indication to not waste my time on something anymore. Hoping to use that imposed feeling to do that gut check and do the proof check of is this a real feeling or is this a made up monster under the
[01:45:20] Aliya: bed? Yeah. And also to add to the age thing is why I think that is definitely a factor.
[01:45:23] Aliya: I know it’s something that like I went through cuz I was like, you know, um, in my twenties coaching [01:45:30] people and I was like, people are not gonna take me seriously. Um, what experience does she have? But then I had to realize that I was working with women who were like 40, 50. I had women who were like 45, 50 saying to me, I wanna work with you because of your energy and that you are, you know, very like kind of finally you have energy, whatever.
[01:45:47] Aliya: I resonate more with you than women my own age, right? Yeah. So I was like, okay, if I can, you know, I work with mums, I’m not a mum, but you don’t need to be those things if you can be good as a coach. And I had to tell myself. I can [01:46:00] help them. I don’t need to be like, and I had, I was coached through this as well.
[01:46:03] Aliya: Why do I feel like I need to be at a certain age mm-hmm. to be like, okay, now I’m equipped to help these people. Mm-hmm. , why? Well, what, what did, where did that number come from? Mm-hmm. . And I’m, I don’t know, just the number I gave to myself. Yeah. Um, so yeah. Kind of dumb and being like, no, it’s, it’s okay. It can happen now.
[01:46:20] Aliya: You know?
[01:46:21] Naeem: Of course it can look at you. Yeah. You’re doing it. Well
[01:46:24] Aliya: still still
[01:46:25] Naeem: have to go through the thing. It’s so, you call me, I’ll remind you, , look at all the things [01:46:30] you’ve done. Oh yeah. I’ll just yell it back at you. It’s like, yeah. Sorry. I remember now, um, are you up for a rapid fire? Yeah. Let’s do it.
RAPID FIRE
[01:46:37] Naeem: Okay. First one’s easy. One ice cream or gelato ice cream. . That was easy. Um, ex this was, this one’s not that easy. Exciting flexibility that leads to volatile results. Boring consistency that leads to shore results.
[01:46:53] Aliya: No. Exciting. Exciting.
[01:46:55] Naeem: Yeah. All right. Okay. Spa day or shopping
[01:46:59] Aliya: [01:47:00] spa day. Yeah. Yeah, same.
[01:47:02] Naeem: Yeah.
[01:47:02] Naeem: Um, if you weren’t living in Dubai or London, where would you be?
[01:47:08] Aliya: Ooh, I think somewhere else in Europe, probably, actually. I do love Europe. Um, and you were in particular? Um, I dunno, I’m not sure. Or Bali , which is so different. Just Kim back. I love Bali. Really. I would wanna go back to Bali. I dunno if I could like live there for a long time, but definitely temporarily and work from Mat [01:47:30] Bali.
[01:47:30] Aliya: We’ll, we’ll talk
[01:47:31] Naeem: off some about experiences. Um, favorite TV show, Netflix show of all time. Not released this
[01:47:37] Aliya: year. Not released this year. Um, okay. This is rapid, right? First one that comes to my head is a go-to is Friends. Cause it’s always funny,
[01:47:44] Naeem: always a staple. Uh, we talked about books already, so if you were to stop working as a coach in the My New Possibility that you would, what would you be doing instead?
[01:47:55] Aliya: What would I be doing instead? Mm. [01:48:00] Can I say it would be around still? Like, okay. Still having an impact, like around like training and education. Probably working with like young women and girls. Somewhere. Something in the isn’t
[01:48:11] Naeem: It’s too similar. It’s too similar. No, ,
[01:48:13] Aliya: it’s similar. Gosh, that mean like a data analyst note?
[01:48:17] Aliya: Definitely not . Um, mm I, oh God.
[01:48:24] Aliya: I dunno. Maybe something super different. Let’s say open my own spa. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That’d
[01:48:29] Naeem: be [01:48:30] cool. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Put that on the vision board. just right next to it. A backup plan. This is a spa in Bali. .
[01:48:38] Aliya: A lot of company. I know. I know. Of course. Yeah.
[01:48:42] Naeem: Daily massages. That’s how cheap
[01:48:43] Aliya: it was. Yeah. That’s so cheap.
[01:48:45] Aliya: Then ones as well.
[01:48:46] Naeem: Um, okay, last one. Big company. Are you building a big, big, big company or are you building a small company? Small,
[01:48:54] Aliya: small company. Yeah.
[01:48:55] Naeem: Yeah. Mm. Yeah. It’s the same for us. We, we, we shock our clients when we tell them like, [01:49:00] yeah, we’re not taking on more clients. Like, why? Yeah. We’re gonna give you all this money.
[01:49:04] Naeem: It’s like, yeah, cuz we’re at our capacity. Yeah. We’re okay here. Exactly. It’s fine. Trying to, trying to shake that hustle off,
[01:49:11] Aliya: you know? Yeah, definitely. It comes with a lot more responsibilities. A lot more stress. Having so much more employees. Yeah. Like I kind of like this flow, so. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
[01:49:19] Naeem: Good. Okay.
[01:49:20] Naeem: Awesome. Um, Alia, thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, thank you so much. There. You have seen me go through, [01:49:30] um, so many notes and so many questions and concerns that I’ve been having. A lot of that has been cleared up. And uh, I think I stole a free coaching session from you. Yeah.
[01:49:41] Naeem: But thanks. My pleasure. Thanks. Thanks for all this, like the, if we
[01:49:46] Aliya: had a real session, we’ve actually cried, so it wasn’t a real session. So what, you haven’t
[01:49:49] Naeem: made me cry. Okay. Next time we get together, it’s a real session. Yeah. We need to have a real one, uh, one, one with tears. I’m gonna have one chapter three called Tears.
[01:49:58] Naeem: I’m gonna do that. But I wanted to [01:50:00] ask you if you had a message for the audience, um, that you want to give. It can only fit on a billboard on Shake Side Road. Yeah. Be a phrase, but enough to catch someone. The tension. Yeah. What would that be?
[01:50:12] Aliya: Um, oh my God. It’s funny cuz you said Shake Eye Road lit you on the road.
[01:50:15] Aliya: That’s really funny. The irony. It would, I would actually be stay in your lane. Stay so . It’s like, yeah. That’s funny. . And I said it before you said Shake Eye Road. I thought of it. So I say stay in your own lane. [01:50:30] Right. It can be so easy to like, Compare yourself to other people. Yeah, especially on social media now.
[01:50:34] Aliya: Like so much noise. Um, people who are ahead of you, but just stay focused. Look at them for inspiration, motivation, even to learn from them. But don’t look at people and, and think, I’ll never be there. They’re so much better than me. And disempower yourself. So learn from people or ahead of you, but don’t compare yourself in a way that’s gonna, you know, bring you down to stay in your own lane, literally and figuratively.
[01:50:55] Aliya: Or .
[01:50:56] Naeem: Stay in your own lane. I love it. Yeah, I love it so much. [01:51:00] And lastly, where can people find you if they’re looking for you online?
[01:51:04] Aliya: Yeah, I’d say, um, you know, hang out on Instagram a lot so you can come find me there, coach underscore Alia. Um, and yeah, you on there as well. You can see all the links to my other kind of social pages as well and sign up to my mailing list.
[01:51:16] Aliya: I send out weekly, you know, tips and tools there as well. So come find me there every Monday, motivation on Monday.
[01:51:23] Naeem: Yeah. Awesome. Well thanks for coming on. Thank you so much. Having, I hope we can do a round two. Yeah, it’d be great. And, uh, I’ll, I’ll ask you about your vision board [01:51:30] then and see what’s changed.
[01:51:31] Naeem: Great. So your spot, . Thanks so much again.
[01:51:35] Aliya: Thank you so much. Na, thank you.
